CanPol: May(?) 2011 Election. Vote today!

[Asher]

You seem to be fixated on the federal funding differential rather than what I'm talking about (equalization payments).

In 2007 Quebec received $4.8B more than it paid in total.
In 2007 Alberta paid $19.5B more than it received.

Are you sure you wish to use this metric to make your point?

Want to have an even more startling number? Look at the per capita numbers.

Edit: Since you're artsy, I'll do the math. Alberta paid $5,553 per capita more than we received. Quebec received $627 per capita more than they paid.

As I said, this makes Quebec look even worse, not better.

[Fake Boris]

Are all people in Quebec this stupid?

Alberta gets $0 in equalization. Quebec gets $7.8B. You are arguing you pay taxes so that shouldn't count. That's not the case.

Why don't you show me an official link which backs up what you are claiming.

Alberta represents ~18% of federal tax revenue. 18% of 7.8B$ = 1.4B$
This is the amount of Alberta's subsidies to Quebec. (Equalization subsidies, to be fair).

As for an official proof that equalization is not a special fund, I don't have any right now, though it is common knowledge.

Here's what you can read on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada

Equalization payments do not, technically, involve wealthy provinces making payments to poor provinces, although in practice this is what happens, via the federal treasury. As an example, a wealthy citizen in New Brunswick, a so-called "have not" province, pays more into equalization than a poorer citizen in Alberta, a so-called "have" province. However, because of Alberta's greater population and wealth, the citizens of Alberta as a whole are net contributors to Equalization, while the citizens of New Brunswick are net receivers of Equalization payments.

[Fake Boris]

You seem to be fixated on the federal funding differential rather than what I'm talking about (equalization payments).

In 2007 Quebec received $4.8B more than it paid in total.
In 2007 Alberta paid $19.5B more than it received.

Are you sure you wish to use this metric to make your point?

Want to have an even more startling number? Look at the per capita numbers.

Edit: Since you're artsy, I'll do the math. Alberta paid $5,553 per capita more than we received. Quebec received $627 per capita more than they paid.

As I said, this makes Quebec look even worse, not better.

Wealthy people pay more taxes. Get over it.

[Asher]

Wealthy people pay more taxes. Get over it.

Alberta is running a deficit.

As I said, there's no reason Quebec should be that "poor".

[Fake Boris]

A deficit that you could overcome with what, a 1% sales tax?

[Asher]

A deficit that you could overcome with what, a 1% sales tax?

Or repatriating 20% of our money Quebec takes to fund its universal daycare.

[Fake Boris]

I'm glad to have had this discussion.

I hope the conclusion is evident:

1) that equalization should not associated to the national/constitutional question, but to the general issue of progressive taxation and wealth redistribution;

2) that any benefit Quebec receives from equalization is more than offset by the adverse effect of oil exports on the manufacturing industry;

thus, that:

3) there is no evidence indicating that Quebec benefits from the federation more than to the extent Canadians usually believe in wealth redistribution

4) if there is widespread opinion of the contrary, this is mainly due to the natural human tendency to be wary of different ethnic/linguistic groups.

[Hauldren Collider]

In the US transfer payments are a bit more complex. I read that 10% or so of federal spending is actually in Virginia due to the large number of military bases in Norfolk and the Northern Virginia regions and other miscellaneous government facilities around the Washington area. However, the allocation of this spending is not based on need but based on where the federal government should locate its facilities. Thus, I don't think this is really seen as "unfair" since you can't exactly build a shipyard in Kansas.

I don't totally get the point of your strict transfer payment scheme. Personally, I think it seems to encourage provinces to race each other to the bottom of whatever metric you use to squeeze more money from the feds.

[Asher]

I'm glad to have had this discussion.

I hope the conclusion is evident:

1) that equalization should not associated to the national/constitutional question, but to the general issue of progressive taxation and wealth redistribution;

2) that any benefit Quebec receives from equalization could is more than offset by the adverse effect of oil exports on the manufacturing industry;

thus, that:

3) there is no evidence indicating that Quebec benefits from the federation more than to the extent Canadians usually believe in wealth redistribution

What a retarded argument. Truly.

Quebec benefits tremendously from being part of Canada.
Alberta is tremendously fiscally hurt from being part of Canada.

Yet despite this, Quebec is always demanding more money.

*****es.

[Fake Boris]

What are those tremendous benefits?

Do you understand that separatists ask for money specifically to have their requests denied?

[Asher]

What are those tremendous benefits?

Billions of dollars per year?

Allowing businesses to operate in Quebec without having to deal with yet-another-federal-government is also a plus. Quebec, as an independent entity distinctly different from the rest of North America, would not be a big market to bother entering.

[Hauldren Collider]

The lingua franca is dead. The costs of operating in lazy frenchland are high. I don't understand why Quebec wants out so badly. Totally with Asher on this.

[Asher]

Quebec, as a whole, doesn't want out.

A significant (but minority) portion of their population does. But they've had referendums on it, and they are staying.

Most "separatists" now basically are just lobbyists for federal money. And it works. And it's pathetic.

[Hauldren Collider]

So Quebec is like your version of our farm states, PLUS they speak a different language AND have a unique douchebaggy culture? No wonder you hate them.

[Asher]

One of the reasons they're so "poor" is they're hostile to businesses.

Even the "Bank of Montreal" moved the **** out of Quebec.

My previous employer was based in Quebec. They had "inspections" from the government to ensure they follow stupid provincial laws (like using French keyboards).

Ridiculous.