US military budget: How would you change it?

[Hauldren Collider]

We probably don't need as many submarines as we have. Who are we going to be sinking with them? No one else even has a navy worth anything. I agree with you regarding the diesels though. I doubt the difference in operational capabilities would make up for the cost. Nuclear subs are just better in so many ways.

[C0ckney]

an update on libya from the bbc

The UN Security Council has backed a resolution on Libya that supports a no-fly zone and "all necessary measures" to protect civilians.

Meeting in New York, the 15-member body agreed "to protect civilians and civilian-populated areas under threat of attack".

It also supported a no-fly zone to help halt the advance of Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi's forces.

Reports suggest air strikes may begin within hours of the resolution passing.

The US, UK and France proposed the council resolution, backing action short of an invasion. It passed 10-0 with five abstentions.

French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe, introducing the resolution, said: "In Libya, for a number of weeks the people's will has been shot down... by Colonel Gaddafi who is attacking his own people.

"We cannot let these warmongers do this, we cannot abandon civilians."

He added: "We should not arrive too late."

Russia and China - which often oppose the use of force against a sovereign country as they believe it sets a dangerous precedent - abstained rather than using their power of veto.

Earlier reports suggested that if the resolution was passed, air attacks on Col Gaddafi's forces by the British and French air forces could begin within hours.

It is not thought that the US would be involved in the first strikes, but the British and French are likely to get logistical backup from Arab allies.

and all without our aircraft carrier too, who would of ever imagined that was possible...

lonestar, you can come over to my place for dinner. how do you like your crow?

[Dinner]

An interesting and positive development. The nation's of the region acting on their own without the US having to get directly involved (at least initially) is something I can fully endorse.

[Asher]

This is exactly what lonestar is talking about. When the Europeans say "Let's have a mulinational no-fly zone", what they really mean is "America, please do the heavy lifting because we are too poor to pay for our own Navy."

And then they complain about us being the world's policemen.

You are wrong yet again.

Canada is sending CF-18s to enforce the no-fly zone in Libya, joining an international force based out of Southern Europe.

Turns out you don't need $1T carriers to do it.

[Felch]

Ford class carriers only cost about 9 billion a pop.

[Asher]

Only?

[Asher]

That's like $67 per taxpayer in the US. $750 per taxpayer in Canada.

[Asher]

What's the operating cost for a Ford class carrier for one year?

[Asher]

Let's put this in perspective. There's a scandal going on right now over a $9B contract to buy a bunch of F-35s. People are incensed it costs so much. And that cost includes maintenance, I think.

[Asher]

Just for you Cockney:



You need a carrier and/or a lot more tanker support than what the RAF currently possesses if your PM wants to intervene overseas. Whoops! Guess he shouldn't have overrode the head of the RN and decomissioned your only fixed wing naval aviation!

Just wanted to bump this piece of hilarity given the recent events.

Turns out all kinds of nations without carrier fleets are able to intervene. Somebody was grossly overstating the Navy's importance yet again. :/

[Asher]

More US tax dollars at work, making more enemies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12779232

Pakistan army chief Kayani in US drone outburst

Pakistan's army chief has condemned the latest raid by US unmanned drones as "intolerable and unjustified".

In a strongly worded statement, Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani said the attack, which killed about 40 people, was "in complete violation of human rights".

Most of the victims were believed to be civilians attending a tribal meeting near North Waziristan's regional capital, Miranshah.

Tension has been growing in recent weeks between the US and Pakistan.

The US drone attacks are a long-running source of bad feeling, but the acquittal of CIA contractor Raymond Davis of murder has sparked protests across Pakistan.

The Pakistani military often makes statements regretting the loss of life in such incidents, but rarely criticises the attacks themselves.

Gen Kayani, however, said such "acts of violence" make it harder to fight terrorism.

"It is highly regrettable that a jirga [meeting] of peaceful citizens including elders of the area was carelessly and callously targeted with complete disregard to human life," he said.

"It has been highlighted clearly that such aggression against people of Pakistan is unjustified and intolerable under any circumstances."

Pakistan's intelligence agency is often accused of complicity in the raids, either by supporting them or allowing them to happen.
Militants targeted

The BBC's M Ilyas Khan in Islamabad says Thursday's drone strike is the deadliest such attack since 2006.
Map

Officials say two drones were involved in the latest attack, in the Datta Khel area 40km (25 miles) west of Miranshah.

One missile was fired at a car carrying suspected militants. Local tribesmen say the drones then fired another three missiles at their open-air meeting, or jirga.

Our correspondent says the car was moving close to the jirga, and the missiles hit the vehicle as well as the jirga.

According to the tribesmen, the meeting was being held to discuss a local land dispute over the ownership of chromite deposits in the area. They say that no militants were present at the time.

Officials said the drones were targeting militants linked to Taliban commander Hafiz Gul Bahadur. One of his commanders, identified as Sharabat Khan, was in the vehicle hit in the attack and was killed, one local official told the BBC.

The US military and the CIA do not routinely confirm that they have launched drone operations, and Gen Kayani did not specifically name the US or mention drones.

But analysts say only American forces could deploy such aircraft in the region.

The attacks have escalated in the region since US President Barack Obama took office. More than 100 raids were reported in the area last year.

[Egbert]

More US tax dollars at work, making more enemies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12779232

So buy shares in a drone manufacturer. You fire a drone killing lots of bystanders thus making more enemies who then need to be attacked with a drone thus......

A every growing cycle generating ever increasing demand for drones.

[MikeH]

an update on libya from the bbc



and all without our aircraft carrier too, who would of ever imagined that was possible...

lonestar, you can come over to my place for dinner. how do you like your crow?

[MikeH]

Just wanted to bump this piece of hilarity given the recent events.

Turns out all kinds of nations without carrier fleets are able to intervene. Somebody was grossly overstating the Navy's importance yet again. :/

Losestar.

[SpencerH]

But a diesel sub is just stupid. They are the weapon for coastal defense. The opposite of what we do. Diesels are never where you need them, when you want them. Can't go fast on the battery. Can't really go that fast even on the diesel. Noisy as hell on the surface or snorkeling. Forward deploying is not the answer (never where you need them, the whole force is tinier, basing rights blabla).

A diesel is like an aircraft carrier with harriers and helos on it. Just not the same thing and tossing away a huge advantage in operational knowledge.

If you really want to get rid of some subs, just get rid of them. And have some more frigates. Oops. I mean LCSes or whatever they call them now.

But don't kid yourself that you replace the capability with 3 diesels for one nuke. they just can't be used in the same way to take the fight to the enemy. They are defensive, not offensive.

Weren't there a number of occasions with "noisy" diesel subs slipping through the protection and "pinging" US carriers on exercise? That doesnt invalidate your argument to get rid of them, I just recall it happening and the embarrassment it caused.