Who are tougher? French Foreign Legion or the Marines?

[Barnabas]

What do you think?

[SlowwHand]

Assuming that you mean U.S. Marines, the Marines.

[Hauldren Collider]

Depends on what part of the Marines. The Marines are a much larger force, and by much larger I mean 7,700 people versus 202,779 active duty Marines. If you took the 7,700 most elite members of the Marines I'd say that those Marines would probably be tougher.

A better question is "Who is tougher? French Foreign Legion or Navy SEALS?"

[Egbert]

The French Foreign Legion and the Royal Marines both have formidable reputations. One couldn't decide which was tougher.

[SlowwHand]

Depends on what part of the Marines. The Marines are a much larger force, and by much larger I mean 7,700 people versus 202,779 active duty Marines. If you took the 7,700 most elite members of the Marines I'd say that those Marines would probably be tougher.

A better question is "Who is tougher? French Foreign Legion or Navy SEALS?"

SEALS. Rangers. Air Force Pararescue.

[MRT144]

Canadian Ice Troopers.

[Egbert]

Gurkas

[Asher]

JTF2 is more elite than the Marines, assuredly. Especially the snipers, world's best.

In 2002, one killed a Taliban "soldier" from 2,443 m (8015 feet). Broke a 30 year old record.

[Felch]

A 30 year old record set by a Marine. And then the Canadian government went and shat all over the sniper team that made those kills.

[Asher]

Liberals

[Al B. Sure!]

Okay the Marine Corps is not Special Forces. The Marine Corps has tougher physical standards than the other branches but it's not Special Forces. Much of the Marine Corps consists of support staff. Every Marine is a Rifleman but not every Marine is actually in the infantry.

MSOR (Marine Special Operations Regiment) is what you would be better off comparing, if you could even do such a thing meaningfully. FORECON, as well.

[Asher]

JTF2 >>> MSOR & FORECON

[Al B. Sure!]

JTF2 >>> MSOR & FORECON

While it's conceivable that JTF2 might have a more stringent selection process and superior training and equipment, JTF2's 300-600 members are selected from a very small Canadian Forces (60,000) force-pool whereas FORECON's 400 are selected from over 200,000.

Just as larger high schools can be expected to have better football teams et ceteris paribus because they can select from a larger pool of potential players, expectations would be that US Special Forces would be superior to Canadian*

*this is not an admission that Rangers are better than FORECON by virtue of the Army being larger than the Corps. There is probably an upper limit to the relationship between quality and the total available force pool.

[Asher]

While it's conceivable that JTF2 might have a more stringent selection process and superior training and equipment, JTF2's 300-600 members are selected from a very small Canadian Forces (60,000) force-pool whereas FORECON's 400 are selected from over 200,000.

But we've already established a single Canadian Forces soldier is more capable than a Marine.

We have also established that the best JTF2 sniper is more capable than the best Marine/MSOR/FORECON sniper.

[Asher]

Apparently about 40 JTF2ers got the Presidential Unit Citation in Afghanistan. How many foreign soldiers get those in general?

Edit: Looks like everyone but the Marines got it.

On December 7, 2004, the Combined Joint Special Operations Task Force-South, known as Task Force K-BAR, a special collection of U.S. and international special forces units, was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation. This award, for service between 17 October 2001 and 30 March 2002, was very unusual in that it was made to multiple international units fighting in the War in Afghanistan[20].
The following units were recognized:
Australian Special Air Service Regiment (although not a part of Task Force K-Bar)
Canada's Joint Task Force 2
New Zealand's Special Air Service
Denmark's Jægerkorpset
Norway's Forsvarets Spesialkommando, Hærens Jegerkommando and Marinejegerkommandoen
Germany's Kommando Spezialkräfte
American units, including the
U.S. Navy SEALs
Special Warfare Combatant-craft Crewmen
U.S. Army Special Forces
Air Force Special Operations Command
In the Presidential Unit Citation for Task Force K-BAR, Major General W. Semianiw, Chief Military Personnel For the Chief of the Defense Staff, stated:
“ Operating first from Oman and then from forward locations throughout the southern and eastern regions of Afghanistan, successfully executed its primary mission to conduct special operations in support of the United States’ efforts to destroy, degrade, and neutralize the Taliban and Al-Qaeda leadership and military. During its six-month existence, this Task Force was the driving force behind extremely high-risk missions and unconventional warfare operations in Afghanistan. The sailors, soldiers, airmen, marines and coalition partners of CJSOTF-South established benchmark standards of professionalism, tenacity, courage, tactical brilliance, and operational excellence while demonstrating superb esprit de corps and maintaining the highest measures of combat readiness. By their outstanding courage, resourcefulness and aggressive fighting spirit in combat against a well-equipped, well-trained, and treacherous terrorist enemy, the officers and enlisted personnel of CJSOTF-South/Task-Force K-BAR reflected great credit upon themselves and upheld the highest traditions of the United States Armed Forces