Religion: Real or fake, the poll

[giblets]

No.

[Egbert]

Look, braindead, there are only two options as Cardinal Ruini summarizing the Pope and alluding to Pascal pointed out... you believe God exists and so you worship him (whether it's the Christian God or whatever else) or you don't believe he exists and you don't worship him.

Those are the only logical positions. God exists but you don't worship him and God doesn't exist but you worship him are not viable positions for obvious reasons.

Albie. I don't know if there is a god. That does not mean that I believe in god. It does not mean that I believe there is no god.

If there is a god then he will continue to exist whether I believe in him or not. If there is no god then one would not suddenly spring into existence if I decided to believe in god.

You may argue that there are only two options in respect of the existence of a god. He either exists in some form or does not exist.

There are three options in respect of believing in god. They are
1. believe in god
2. believe there is no god
3. don't know (including not sure or don't care)

[BeBMan]

When it comes to practical matters you either believe or you don't (as you said about the "existence of a god"). "Don't know" is a theoretical distinction which goes indeed to the question "Is there a god?"

But you can't seriously believe if you answer "I don't know if there's a god" to that. If otoh the question is "Do you believe?" then "Don't know" doesn't seem like a sufficient answer.

[Elok]

I've said it before, I'll no doubt say it again: you can't speak of the "probability" of a unique event with unknown (or, in the case of God, nonexistent) causes. Well, okay, you can, but not with any authority. It inevitably boils down, in actual meaning, to "what I want to believe" or "the degree to which I can tolerate it in my worldview."

[Al B. Sure!]

Albie. I don't know if there is a god. That does not mean that I believe in god. It does not mean that I believe there is no god.

If there is a god then he will continue to exist whether I believe in him or not. If there is no god then one would not suddenly spring into existence if I decided to believe in god.

You may argue that there are only two options in respect of the existence of a god. He either exists in some form or does not exist.

There are three options in respect of believing in god. They are
1. believe in god
2. believe there is no god
3. don't know (including not sure or don't care)

Do you live your life as though God exists?
Do you live your life as though God does not exist?

If it's the latter, you are an atheist.

[giblets]

Stop being a dumbass.

[Al B. Sure!]

Stop being a dumbass.

You are a ****ing dumbass. You just post one line insulting comments. What do you even do? You have no response. I have quoted a Cardinal and Richard Dawkins on this very issue to support my position; if I'm a dumbass, so are they. I can also turn to Sam Harris and J. J. C. Smart if necessary. What have you done? You haven't even given any position or any evidence to counter my points.


Atheism is the absence of belief in God. Does braindead believe in God? No. He is an atheist.

[giblets]

He's repeatedly explained to you why he says he's an agnostic. You're just too dumb to get it.

[Al B. Sure!]

He's repeatedly explained to you why he says he's an agnostic. You're just too dumb to get it.

"Don't know" is an absence of belief; it is atheism. "Don't know", assuming it is not accompanied by worship of God, as is given by braindead, is practical atheism as well.

[Al B. Sure!]

The issue is that braindead is erroneously believing that atheism means the complete conviction of the non-existence of God. No atheist would make that statement which is intellectually equivalent to having faith in the non-existence of God since there is no 'proof' that God does not exist (see Dawkins).

[BeBMan]

Some file agnosticism generally under atheism, some don't. Personally I think people can easily say they're agnostics when it comes to the underlying filo probs like "is there a god" "can there be proof of a god" etc. where atheists and agnostics can give distinctive answers (and I disagree with your last post: atheists often do hold a conviction of the non-existence of g - and this is not neccessarily equivalent to having faith in the non-existence of him).

[Egbert]

Albie, I use the definitions of the words atheist and agnostic from the dictionary. Here are the dictionary definitions. I neither deny nor disbelieve in the existence of god. I neither deny nor disbelieve in the existence of god therefore I do not fit into the dictionary definition of atheist. I regard the existence of god as unknown, and unknowable, to me therefore I fit into the definition of agnostic.

Denying, or disbelieving, is different from not knowing.

a•the•ist
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.

ag•nos•tic
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience

[Al B. Sure!]

Disbelief is not equivalent to denial.

The prefix 'dis-' means not/lacking. Disbelief can mean anything from an active repudiation to a passive lack of belief.

You lack belief. You posses disbelief in God. You are an atheist.

[SlowwHand]

And he's going to Hell.

[Al B. Sure!]

Braindead, disbelief in an idea is not the same thing as believing that the idea is not true. Mere disbelief in the truth of an assertion is not equivalent to the belief that the assertion is false and that the opposite of the assertion is true.