Wisconsin Takes A Stand For Fiscal Sanity

[MrFun]

Don't count your chickens too soon. The Dems are famous for not taking advantage of crap like this.

Thanks for bringing me back to reality.

[molly bloom]

When the Dems are in power and negotiating with public sector unions - Who represents the taxpayers in the negotiations?

Don't union members pay taxes too ? I always have done. You must be thinking of those clever companies who can afford the lawyers and accountants to create smart tax avoidance schemes...

[Wezil]

Don't union members pay taxes too ? I always have done. You must be thinking of those clever companies who can afford the lawyers and accountants to create smart tax avoidance schemes...

What about the taxpayers that aren't members of the Special Club? What about their interests?

I guess once every citizen is part of the public sector union the problem will be solved.

[molly bloom]

What about the taxpayers that aren't members of the Special Club? What about their interests?

I guess once every citizen is part of the public sector union the problem will be solved.

Which problem is that, exactly ?

Aren't Democratic politicians also elected by taxpayers ? Just like Republican politicians ? It's not a perfect system, but it's still better than North Korea's, Bahrain's or Iran's. You write as though union members aren't ordinary taxpayers or voters- they are, and some are churchgoers, and some are shareholders, and some are probably even Republicans.

I've never understood the need to quantify people by just one aspect of their life.

[Wezil]

Which problem is that, exactly ?

The problem of elected reps being literally in the pocket of the unions. That's fine if you are a union member but doesn't assist you if you aren't.

Aren't Democratic politicians also elected by taxpayers ?

You acknowledge the distinction but ignore it? Taxpayers not unionists.

Just like Republican politicians ? It's not a perfect system, but it's still better than North Korea's, Bahrain's or Iran's. You write as though union members aren't ordinary taxpayers or voters- they are, and some are churchgoers, and some are shareholders, and some are probably even Republicans.

Union members are ordinary taxpayers and voters. We're talking about the WI Dem party.

I've never understood the need to quantify people by just one aspect of their life.

Again we are talking about the party not the citizens. You have the argument backward Molly.

[Wezil]

Also Molly, public sector unions are the focus here.

[Darius871]

One thing I don't get: doesn't the bill still allow collective bargaining limited to wages? And if so, couldn't a rational union just calculate the monthly dollar value of the benefits they're going to lose (taking into account lost tax advantages) and demand a roughly equal increase in pay? What the **** is the difference?

[kittenOFchaos]

How do you determine teacher performance if not through student performance?

The difficulty is and always has been how you gauge student performance.

The basis would presumably be on pupil progress. That relies on the data going in being reliable and valid. That means the tests need to be up to the job, it also means that they have to be done in such a way that the results cannot be fiddled.

Another major problem is that teachers would simply teach to the test rather than provide an education.

If it was a simple matter, then it'd have been solved long ago.

[Kuciwalker]

One thing I don't get: doesn't the bill still allow collective bargaining limited to wages? And if so, couldn't a rational union just calculate the monthly dollar value of the benefits they're going to lose (taking into account lost tax advantages) and demand a roughly equal increase in pay? What the **** is the difference?

Modulo tax advantages, that's exactly the calculation the state already does when deciding what contribution is has to make to the pension fund every year.

[Kuciwalker]

The difficulty is and always has been how you gauge student performance.

Really? Because we've been measuring student performance since forever.

[giblets]

Really? Because we've been measuring student performance since forever.

What measure are you talking about?

[KrazyHorse]

[Kuciwalker]

[Hauldren Collider]

I'm going to ponder your question while I study for my end of quarter exams.

[Kuciwalker]

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