Incidentally, **** you, Jenny McCarthy. That is all.

[SpencerH]

There was a time when there were physician recommended brands of tobacco.

You might understand why some people may not accept authority as gospel.

Why not make varients of vaccines without mercury at all?

As has been said, thiomersal is a very effective antiseptic. It was, and is still, used to prevent bacterial growth in various products (including eye drops at one time) where sterility is critically important. Because of its effectiveness, it is used at concentrations that are believed to be non-toxic to humans. The use of thiomersal allows some vaccines to be non-refrigerated, which is critically important in countries that have no refrigeration. In addition, thiomersal allows "multi-dose" batches of vaccine to be safely prepared and used with considerable cost saving. Again, an important feature for vaccine programs in third world countries. Therefore, it can be argued from a public health standpoint that the inclusion of thiomersal in vaccine formulations has been critically important and completely justified. OTOH, we no longer need to include thiomersal in any vaccine used in the developed world and its use has been phased out from all (I believe) pediatric vaccines and many adult vaccines used in the USA and Europe. It's unclear to me why it remains in any vaccines in use here, I dont see the point except to reduce vaccine manufacturers liability in the case of a contamination.

The question is whether thiomersal could contribute to autism and other neurological conditions? As a scientist, I would have to say yes, there is a possibility. Mercury is a superbly potent neurotoxin. Given that a potential mechanism of action obviously exists, it is ridiculous for me to give any other answer and it is an example of medical arrogance to believe otherwise. That's not to say, that we should do anything to reduce the use of vaccines IMO. As a pediatrician, Guy is justifiably incensed over the stupidity of parents not vaccinating their children against life threatening diseases that are easily preventable. That doesnt mean, however, that there may not be subgroups of people who have increased sensitivity and susceptibility to the neuro-toxic effects of thiomersal (possibly) under specific conditions. If they exist, we need to identify them and the conditions.

[DinoDoc]

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a910652305~db=all~jumptype=rss

Something for Guy because I care.

[DaShi]

It must be difficult for you lacking the ability to reason. As bad as Hera.

[Guynemer]

Several studies have looked explored possible links between thimerosal and autism; they've turned up **** all. As has every other study of vaccines.


We don't know what causes autism. We don't even know what autism is, for ****'s sake. Is it one problem, or 1,000 different ones manifesting similar symptoms? How much is genetic, how much is environmental, and what sort of environmental factors? Airborne pollutants? Early exposure to television? Some studies have shown a significantly increased risk with parental age. It's a fluid situation.

We're looked at vaccines. A whole ****ing lot. We've found nothing to indicate they are a factor. We've got a ****ton of data that shows they save many lives the world over, though; with the exception of clean drinking water, they are probably the most important public health advance in the history of mankind. And all it took to nearly bring them down was a doctor faking a study to promote his own financial interests and a bobble-headed former Playboy playmate with an axe to grind. Way to go, Western Civilization!

[Asher]

As has been said, thiomersal is a very effective antiseptic. It was, and is still, used to prevent bacterial growth in various products (including eye drops at one time) where sterility is critically important. Because of its effectiveness, it is used at concentrations that are believed to be non-toxic to humans. The use of thiomersal allows some vaccines to be non-refrigerated, which is critically important in countries that have no refrigeration. In addition, thiomersal allows "multi-dose" batches of vaccine to be safely prepared and used with considerable cost saving. Again, an important feature for vaccine programs in third world countries. Therefore, it can be argued from a public health standpoint that the inclusion of thiomersal in vaccine formulations has been critically important and completely justified. OTOH, we no longer need to include thiomersal in any vaccine used in the developed world and its use has been phased out from all (I believe) pediatric vaccines and many adult vaccines used in the USA and Europe. It's unclear to me why it remains in any vaccines in use here, I dont see the point except to reduce vaccine manufacturers liability in the case of a contamination.

The question is whether thiomersal could contribute to autism and other neurological conditions? As a scientist, I would have to say yes, there is a possibility. Mercury is a superbly potent neurotoxin. Given that a potential mechanism of action obviously exists, it is ridiculous for me to give any other answer and it is an example of medical arrogance to believe otherwise. That's not to say, that we should do anything to reduce the use of vaccines IMO. As a pediatrician, Guy is justifiably incensed over the stupidity of parents not vaccinating their children against life threatening diseases that are easily preventable. That doesnt mean, however, that there may not be subgroups of people who have increased sensitivity and susceptibility to the neuro-toxic effects of thiomersal (possibly) under specific conditions. If they exist, we need to identify them and the conditions.

I'm thrilled to know that, as a scientist, you have reason to believe it's possible for thiomersal to cause autism. Even more, I'm thrilled you know that autism is caused by some kind of foreign biological agent altogether.

You ought to share these findings with the rest of the world. We're all clueless, apparentlty.

[Hauldren Collider]

Several studies have looked explored possible links between thimerosal and autism; they've turned up **** all. As has every other study of vaccines.


We don't know what causes autism. We don't even know what autism is, for ****'s sake. Is it one problem, or 1,000 different ones manifesting similar symptoms? How much is genetic, how much is environmental, and what sort of environmental factors? Airborne pollutants? Early exposure to television? Some studies have shown a significantly increased risk with parental age. It's a fluid situation.

We're looked at vaccines. A whole ****ing lot. We've found nothing to indicate they are a factor. We've got a ****ton of data that shows they save many lives the world over, though; with the exception of clean drinking water, they are probably the most important public health advance in the history of mankind. And all it took to nearly bring them down was a doctor faking a study to promote his own financial interests and a bobble-headed former Playboy playmate with an axe to grind. Way to go, Western Civilization!

Guy, for every Jenny McCarthy there are a dozen level-headed reasonable people who don't crap their pants at the most trivial of horror stories. Just remember the silent majority of scare skeptics whenever you feel your blood boil at the retards.

[DaShi]

Now we need another climate change thread.

[Darius871]

Even more, I'm thrilled you know that autism is caused by some kind of foreign biological agent altogether.

Where did he ever go that far? Didn't he just say it'd be absurd to flatly declare that potential mechanism of action impossible, and nothing more?

[Asher]

It's absurd to declare anything impossible, depending how you look at it. When there's absolutely no indication whatsoever for it to be the case, it's absurd to say anything other than that.

[Darius871]

It's absurd to declare anything impossible, depending how you look at it. When there's absolutely no indication whatsoever for it to be the case, it's absurd to say anything other than that.

No, something reasonable "other than that" is to just agree that there being no reliable evidence of a causal connection between thiomersal and any significant medical problems, there is no reason to phase out thiomersal in regions where doing so would increase costs. Spencer didn't seem to go an inch beyond that common sense and I don't think anyone here (save for perhaps a zakuHL or two) would either.

[Perfection]

Guy, for every Jenny McCarthy there are a dozen level-headed reasonable people who don't crap their pants at the most trivial of horror stories.

Yeah, but they don't end up on Oprah

[giblets]

Has Oprah apologized for being such a terrible person?

[Perfection]

I'll stop badmouthing her if she gives me a car.

But it has to be a nice car.

[giblets]

Kind of hard to fit under a seat.

[Felch]

Has there ever been any research into using LSD to treat autism?