Would you please stop smugly bashing Hera?

[Provost Harrison]

That's right...although I actually have to reverse all the way home if I drive further out.

[Barnabas]

Bull****. Islam had conquered all of the Middle East and North African (as well as Spain) by 750. The Islamic golden age continued for centuries afterwards.

Really, the Mongol and Timurid invasions is what did a lot of damage to the Islamic world before a resurgence during the Ottoman Empire.

Not really, since people didn't convert from Christianity to Islam in a few years, it was a process that took many centuries, in some places islamization was faster like north Africa, in others it was very slow like Egypt and the middle east.

The Mongol detruction of Baghdad happened a long time after 1085 when both Sicily and Toledo were recaptured by Christians, all of Spain was in christian hands by then except the tributary state of Granada. And the first crusades had happened, the arab world was in decline before the Mongol conquest of Baghdad.

[Wezil]

I can't find the stats but I'm going to pull it out of my ass and say Fake London is safer then the cesspool of original London.

So there.

[Al B. Sure!]

Not really, since people didn't convert from Christianity to Islam in a few years, it was a process that took many centuries, in some places islamization was faster like north Africa, in others it was very slow like Egypt and the middle east.

The Mongol detruction of Baghdad happened a long time after 1085 when both Sicily and Toledo were recaptured by Christians, all of Spain was in christian hands by then except the tributary state of Granada. And the first crusades had happened, the arab world was in decline before the Mongol conquest of Baghdad.

Not in cultural decline, though.

And the Turks (and Mughals in India) helped put Islam to its zenith by the 17th century.

[Caligastia]

I don't know anything about the science of it all. It's possible, for all I know, that people of whatever group might have, on average, a lower IQ, muscle mass, penis size or what-have-you than members of another group. But the words "on average" make any such difference an irrelevance. You can't go making policy decisions on how to treat the entirety of a group based on averages--you have to treat individuals as just that, individuals. Especially when you factor in the strong influences of upbringing, cultural background and everything else. Given Hera's fondness for big schemes to Improve Humanity, it's only natural that such talk should wig me out. But I do think we'd do better to just ignore his racial threads and let them sink.

Agreed, it's perfectly reasonable to state that average differences are irrelevant with respect to any individual. I'm not familiar with what policies Hera tends to advocate, but personally I would be happy just to see the death of policies that force equal outcomes based on egalitarian assumptions - something that can only happen once those assumptions are comprehensively discredited and generally rejected.

[Caligastia]

Or he could just recognize that some ****wits don't warrant his caring so much.

[onodera]

I can't find the stats but I'm going to pull it out of my ass and say Fake London is safer then the cesspool of original London.

So there.

thanks for reminding me of this Poly classic.

[MikeH]

Alby, I'm sorry. The walk to get lunch has clarified this discussion for me. Here's how it should have gone:


MikeH: You are overstating how racist Europe is, we've got some problems but it's no worse than the US. *gives some poorly chosen examples*

Al B. Sure!: Your Rodney King example isn't a good one. x, y and z* have changed in LA in the last 20 years.

MikeH: Ok, that's fair, you are right. What I should have said was that in your last Presidential election two of the major issues were part of one of your major parties claiming one candidate was a muslim, in order to scare people off voting for him, and illegal immigration from Mexico. Which exactly mirror the two major areas where you claimed Europe was more racist than the US. ie. anti-muslim sentiment and anti-immigration voting.

I should never have got involved in the race riots straw man. I'm an idiot, and thusly lose the thread, despite being right.


*where x, y and z have nothing to do with Philly or NYPD, and especially don't use as an example NYPD beating black guys to death as example of there being no racial tension in the US.

Knew you'd ignore this.

[Provost Harrison]

Yeah, leave Heraclitus alone, the true Apolyton Racism King has returned!

[Caligastia]

Yeah, leave Heraclitus alone, the true Apolyton Racism King has returned!

Ohhh...you called me racist!!! That hurts!!!

[Provost Harrison]

It can't be avoided, that's how sharp and incisive I am

[Caligastia]

Your uniquely witty attack has left me a tattered emotional wreck...

[Provost Harrison]

Join the clinic with the rest of them

[MOBIUS]

Your uniquely witty attack has left me a tattered emotional wreck...

The truth hurts...

[DaShi]

Aren't we supposed to be smugly bashing Hera?