Repeal of DADT Has Passed

[Wezil]

Wezil, you're thinking Abolitionists. Still, the point stands.

Yeah, them too.

[KrazyHorse]

Hey HC, you know it goes both ways, as well, right? Israeli citizens are barred by the Israeli government from entering Lebanon, Syria, etc. Guess they have to be armed members of the IDF to be able to do it And I'm sure Lebanese and Syrian nationals have no problem visiting Israel


However, MrFun's concern is still legitimate. It's not about how you are personally affected. I wonder what you would say about whites who supported the Civil Rights movement? Would you and KH criticize them?

I "support" this, you ******. That's not the point I'm making.

[Al B. Sure!]

What is your point then?

Did you not post:

Question: if Fun never had any intention of joining the army then why does he care?

?

[Tupac Shakur]

I'm not surprised Albie is so passionate about DADT.

[KrazyHorse]

What is your point then?

Did you not post:



?

Are you really this dense?

[Aeson]

Would I care if Canadians were suddenly granted the right to serve in the US military? Do I think this would open up a whole new era of Canadian rights in the US?

Perhaps if Canadians had regularly been (and to some extent still were) harassed, institutionalized, beat, and murdered in the US for being Canadian... then you'd be more enthusiastic about advancement towards the equitable treatment of Canadians in US law? (Likely Arrian's point too.)

As for the "symbolic" nature, these are steps that are necessary to eliminate institutionalized bigotry. It doesn't happen all at once. Each step closer to the goal is an important one... not only to the individuals directly impacted, but to everyone who supports equal protection by law.

[bc1871]

It should be pointed out, that many Canadians have volunteered for America’s wars, from serving both Lincoln and Johnny Reb, to the War in Iraq, Canadians have made a valuable contribution to the American military machine.

If anything, it could only be beneficial for the US Military to allow a greater recruiting presence North of the Border, since they would no doubt would always have a long line of ready and willing recruits.

[Kuciwalker]

Question: if Fun never had any intention of joining the army then why does he care?

Incrementalism. The gay rights movement can only engage so many issues at once, so resolving one either opens up more issues for advancement or allows them to focus more energy on remaining issues. Also, every time the homophobes lose a battle and the world doesn't end, it further marginalizes their other positions. And finally, it makes lots of people I don't like really unhappy

PS not to mention it's the right thing to do

[Dauphin]

It should be pointed out, that many Canadians have volunteered for America’s wars, from serving both Lincoln and Johnny Reb, to the War in Iraq, Canadians have made a valuable contribution to the American military machine.

If anything, it could only be beneficial for the US Military to allow a greater recruiting presence North of the Border, since they would no doubt would always have a long line of ready and willing recruits.

It'd be like how the Irish join the British Army.

[KrazyHorse]

Question: if Fun never had any intention of joining the army then why does he care?

Incrementalism. The gay rights movement can only engage so many issues at once, so resolving one either opens up more issues for advancement or allows them to focus more energy on remaining issues. Also, every time the homophobes lose a battle and the world doesn't end, it further marginalizes their other positions. And finally, it makes lots of people I don't like really unhappy

PS not to mention it's the right thing to do

a) Obviously it's the right thing to do
b) Yes, it's nice to stick your dick in the mashed potatoes of bigots
c) See my comment from earlier (on the incrementalism thing)

[KrazyHorse]

Perhaps if Canadians had regularly been (and to some extent still were) harassed, institutionalized, beat, and murdered in the US for being Canadian... then you'd be more enthusiastic about advancement towards the equitable treatment of Canadians in US law?

This appears to be yet more symbolic rationality. Gays were treated terribly in the past, thus gay people feel enormously indignant about the relatively mild disadvantages they still suffer, even if these disadvantages don't directly affect them.

[KrazyHorse]

Here's a question: why is it that a gay man with no intention of ever joining the military is so much more worked up about this than military people who have no intention of ever ****ing another man? Should he be? Why?

[Kuciwalker]

Your answer is pathetic. Would I care if Canadians were suddenly granted the right to serve in the US military? Do I think this would open up a whole new era of Canadian rights in the US?

1) Legal restrictions backed by ill will are different in character and effect from similar restrictions that aren't.
2) Why would we want Canadians in our army? That's barely a step up from Frenchmen...

[Kuciwalker]

I also think that you undervalue symbolism. Symbols are often worthless, but I think they can be valuable when the result of genuine effort.

[Kuciwalker]

Your answer is pathetic. Would I care if Canadians were suddenly granted the right to serve in the US military? Do I think this would open up a whole new era of Canadian rights in the US?

Oh, also, if Canadians were granted rights normally reserved for Americans, like "can work for American defense agencies/contractors", I think it would give the open up the possibility of reworking other inefficient cross-border restrictions.