Politness Costs Nothing but Can Pay Dividends

[KrazyHorse]

What the ****? No, crypto is a specific application of RNGs.

Alternately, RNGs are just a specific application of crypto.

Generating good random numbers and generating good ciphers are almost identical problems.

One of the people I work with is formerly a world-class crypto expert...

[Asher]

What the ****? No, crypto is a specific application of RNGs.

Alternately, RNGs are just a specific application of crypto.

Generating good random numbers and generating good ciphers are almost identical problems.

Uhhhh, what the **** Kuci? No. No no no.

If I want a RNG for my Civ game, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH CRYPTO.

If I want a RNG for a quiz system for classrooms to re-order questions for each application of the test and each student, this has nothing to do with Crypto.

Crypto relies very heavily on RNG but that's not saying they're the same thing or RNG is an application of crypto.

[Asher]

This right here shows that you were mixing up what does what. new rand declares the new stream. next increments the current stream. The solution you seem to favour is the one which declares a new stream for every user.

YES. New Rand declares the stream, next increments the current stream. I've said this over and over, why do you have issues reading it?

And yes, every user should have a new stream. Just like every game of Civ has a new stream.

What do you favour? Seeding the RNG once a day? Once a month? Once a year? Once ever, period?

I guarantee you, these lotto apps re-seed for every user.

[KrazyHorse]

Missed this DanS.

Yes, re-seeding is the most obvious thing to do when you're starting a new stream of events, eg a new game of Civ or a new User. I've actually never seen it done any other way.

We seed our RNG after each app startup. But the seed takes into account a mix of chronological and analog information.

Asher, the most famous lottery RNG screwup in the world took place in an application where no reseeding took place between time-separated draws.

[Asher]

Asher, the most famous lottery RNG screwup in the world took place in an application where no reseeding took place between time-separated draws.

All the more reason to re-seed?

[KrazyHorse]

YES. New Rand declares the stream, next increments the current stream. I've said this over and over

No, you've said the exact opposite at least once.

[Kuciwalker]

Uhhhh, what the **** Kuci? No. No no no.

If I want a RNG for my Civ game, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH CRYPTO.

If I want a RNG for a quiz system for classrooms to re-order questions for each application of the test and each student, this has nothing to do with Crypto.

Crypto relies very heavily on RNG but that's not saying they're the same thing or RNG is an application of crypto.

All three of these claims are false, especially the second and third.

[Asher]

No, you've said the exact opposite at least once.

Quote me...you seem to be mis-reading as the one time you've quoted me thinking I said the opposite, I quite clearly did not...

[Asher]

All three of these claims are false, especially the second and third.

Time to go back to the spreadsheets, Kuci.

[Kuciwalker]

The output of a good RNG has virtually identical properties to the output of a good cipher, and this runs both ways.

[Asher]

The output of a good RNG has virtually identical properties to the output of a good cipher, and this runs both ways.

So now cipher = cryptography?

A cipher is a cryptographic application of an RNG, so it should shock no one they have virtually identical properties.

Cryptography, on the other hand, is not the same thing as a cipher...

[Kuciwalker]

So now cipher = cryptography?

A cipher is a cryptographic application of an RNG, so it should shock no one they have virtually identical properties.

Cryptography, on the other hand, is not the same thing as a cipher...

Since modern encryption is all done using ciphers, your distinction isn't especially relevant.

[KrazyHorse]

All the more reason to re-seed?

No, all the more reason to not to declare new streams with identical seeds.

The story is as follows: the Keno game in question was shut off every night. On startup, the code declared something like strm = new rand(123523);

Throughout the day, the Keno game drew from strm by incrementing. However, because the stream had been reseeded every day with the same seed, the sequence of numbers drawn was identical. Somebody noticed this, took down the sequence of winning draws and won 3 jackpots in a row....

[Asher]

Since modern encryption is all done using ciphers, your distinction isn't especially relevant.

Cryptography is far more than ciphers.

My best friend is doing her PhD in crypto right now, and she's not doing much with ciphers at all. Ciphers are but one part of Cryptography, even if they are an extremely common part right now.

[KrazyHorse]

Quote me...

The quote I provided is perfectly clear.