DHS/ICE seizes domain names of torrent sites

[rah]

I didn't say mixed tapes didn't lead to lost revenue. At least I paid for it originally. Most pirates never do. And it's the scale of it. Which I've mentioned already.

Your ability to reasonably pay argument is absurd. There are a lot of things in life that I have no ability to pay for that if I took that I would be thrown in jail. Software shouldn't be considered an exception. Imagine if your employer told you that you would have to take a 50% cut in pay because pirates were leaching off enough sales of your work.

[rah]

Huh?

I'm claiming in the edge case (ridiculously overpriced $2000 software...FOR EVERY VERSION...required for students to learn their craft) doesn't cost a valid sale, because students cannot pay for that to begin with. They will not be using it professionally to make money. THIS case is not a lost sale as that person would obviously never buy it themselves, for they cannot.

IN FACT, this likely leads to INCREASED future sales as the person would then use the software professionally post-graduation.

Again, MANY software companies have figured this out and provide students FREE versions of their very expensive software (like Microsoft). It should be quite clear that the companies that've looked at this have not only determined that students getting their software for free did NOT cost them sales, it also a LONG TERM BENEFIT to them.

And good for the companies that figure that out and offer it free. And you're cherry picking one item here. Pirating music and games aren't the same. I never mentioned career using software.

[Asher]

I didn't say mixed tapes didn't lead to lost revenue. At least I paid for it originally. Most pirates never do. And it's the scale of it. Which I've mentioned already.

You're a bit delusional, rah.

It's quite illegal to copy and distribute content you own. In fact, if you look at the legal history, the many people prosecuted of piracy did exactly as you did. They copied something they owned, legally, but then distributed to people...illegally.

Your ability to reasonably pay argument is absurd. There are a lot of things in life that I have no ability to pay for that if I took that I would be thrown in jail. Software shouldn't be considered an exception. Imagine if your employer told you that you would have to take a 50% cut in pay because pirates were leaching off enough sales of your work.

I'm not sure you are reading what I'm writing. "software" isn't an exception. Unreasonable costs (usually aimed at corporate sales, where execs are stupid enough to overpay) that lead to lost sales ANYWAY to a significant segment of the market leads to NO ADDITIONAL LOST REVENUE if those products are copied.

The company is NOT losing anything in this case. In fact, your example of mix tapes DOES cost the company lost revenues for the sale of that song to the person you gave it to. It is demonstrably practically worse.

[Asher]

And good for the companies that figure that out and offer it free. And you're cherry picking one item here. Pirating music and games aren't the same. I never mentioned career using software.

I'm not cherry picking anything. I'm providing a SINGLE counterexample to your universal claim, specifically mentioning repeatedly that this is an EDGE CASE.

[rah]

It is not illegal to buy a book and give it to someone else to read
It is not illegal to record a song off the radio and play it.
No one has ever been prosecuted for making a mix of songs recorded off the radio and given to a girlfriend.

It's a matter of scale. If there weren't major pirate sites, no one would every give a crap about the onesies and twosies.

Again, it's a matter of opinion, and a lot of the differences will be seen over generational lines. (not all)

[C0ckney]

it's worth pointing out that with the mixtapes scenario there is also the potential for increased sales.

kid a gives kid b a mixtape, kid b hears a song by a band he's never heard of before and likes it so much that he goes out and buys the single, or maybe their whole album. if they come to his town he might even go see them play. i can imagine this happened quite a lot. none of this would happen if kid b remains ignorant of that band.

[Asher]

It is not illegal to buy a book and give it to someone else to read
It is not illegal to record a song off the radio and play it.
No one has ever been prosecuted for making a mix of songs recorded off the radio and given to a girlfriend.

I don't care about the inconsistency of American laws.

I'm talking pragmatic principles, here.

It's a matter of scale. If there weren't major pirate sites, no one would every give a crap about the onesies and twosies.

I don't care about scale. I'm talking about fundamental principles, not practical law application.

Again, it's a matter of opinion, and a lot of the differences will be seen over generational lines. (not all)

There's no real difference. Your mix tape is my 3D Studio.

[Asher]

it's worth pointing out that with the mixtapes scenario there is also the potential for increased sales.

kid a gives kid b a mixtape, kid b hears a song by a band he's never heard of before and likes it so much that he goes out and buys the single, or maybe their whole album. if they come to his town he might even go see them play. i can imagine this happened quite a lot. none of this would happen if kid b remains ignorant of that band.

This is the exact same logic that exists in letting kids have free copies of very expensive industry software.

It leads to increased future earnings.

[rah]

I don't care about the inconsistency of American laws.

I'm talking pragmatic principles, here.


I don't care about scale. I'm talking about fundamental principles, not practical law application.


There's no real difference. Your mix tape is my 3D Studio.

If you don't care about scale and not interested in the practical law application, we really have nothing to discuss.


But I do have an issue that if an individual can make a personal judgment that nothing is being lost so it's ok to just take it. To me, that's wrong.
But yes, you have every right to argue the validity of the law.

[Wezil]

Asher - Have you heard if the Cdn recording industry has compensated the Cdn artists for the material they stole for compilation CDs? I know you mentioned it in the past and I can't find anything current...

[Asher]

But I do have an issue that if an individual can make a personal judgment that nothing is being lost so it's ok to just take it. To me, that's wrong.

Why is it wrong? No one loses anything but someone gains.

[Asher]

Asher - Have you heard if the Cdn recording industry has compensated the Cdn artists for the material they stole for compilation CDs? I know you mentioned it in the past and I can't find anything current...

I doubt that they have, the slimeballs.

The latest cluster**** is the PERFORMERS union wants in on a the levy on CDs/iPods/etc in addition to the existing group (which I can't remember the specifics of). Unbelievable.

I do appreciate how the music industry taxes our discs, giving us the moral right to take what we're already paying for from the torrent sites.

It also makes it virtually impossible for them to sue anyone for digital copyright infringement, since Canadians are already paying fees for it.

[rah]

Why is it wrong? No one loses anything but someone gains.

It is my opinion that someone loses. If pirating really didn't cost anybody anything, why would companies spend so much money trying to stop it?

Are all the studies of the costs of piracy just made up? While I'm sure that some have been exaggerated for effect, there is some cost.

You are the one that has decided that no one loses.


But you do make a valid point that if you're paying extra taxes on recordable media you have certain additional rights, but they should be spelled out.

[Asher]

It is my opinion that someone loses. If pirating really didn't cost anybody anything, why would companies spend so much money trying to stop it?

Because in the majority of cases, it does cost them money. That doesn't mean all.

You are the one that has decided that no one loses.

Again, you seem to be incredibly confused. Of course someone loses in the majority of piracy cases.

In the cases where someone really, really would never buy a piece of IP they pirate -- how can you say someone loses?

As I've stated, I don't pirate things because I can afford not to. I buy my games, software, music, etc. I do rip movies I rent though, but only for movies I REALLY would never spend any money buying. I don't even watch them 99% of the time after I rip them, it's a compulsion and hoarding mentality more than anything else. I buy Blurays for movies I really like, just like I would buy DVDs/VHSes before easy internet piracy.

[rah]

ASHER,
You're not the problem.
At least when you're ripping movies, you paid to rent them.

And the only issue with your post is the "where they would never buy" part

If they would never buy anything, then they're just thieves justifying their theft.


Those that will buy occasionally, fall into that might generate more sales group, which I'm not 100 % comfortable with, but don't see as being as big of a problem. I mean heck, broadcast radio is just one big advertisement for the groups played.