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  • #16
    You need to reread, arrian. I have no view on the morality or prudence of saving (consuming later) versus consuming now. That is why I don't want to penalize/advantage one over the other.
    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
    Ultima Ratio Regum

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    • #17
      Removing capital gains tax means that those who have the most increase in wealth will always pay the least taxes. Considering that most of the goods provided by the government have the purpose of increasing value for investments, those who make money off those investments should contribute in a reasonable fashion.

      To not tax capital gains means that the taxes fall on the poor and middle class, to the benefit of the capitalist class (The very rich).

      As (an extreme) example, we have Steve Jobs. He gets paid a dollar a year for his job. Why? Because the income he gets from doing a good job increases his stock prices. Despite the dollar a year pay, his actual reimbursement is much much higher than even the wealthiest of professionals.

      Additionally, this would increase activities like paying highly paid employees (like CEOs) with stock, further decreasing the amount of tax paid by the wealthy.

      I know the idea is a high tax on luxuries/etc, but that still doesn't change the fact that low/non-existant capital gains taxes concentrates wealth in the already wealthy and places the burden on the poor/middle class (Buffet has an averagish car/house/etc for example). Additionally, with wealth comes power (even in democracy, as money = speech), so concentrating wealth has the same effect as concentrating political power.

      I thought that plan was pretty good.

      JM
      Jon Miller-
      I AM.CANADIAN
      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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      • #18
        Why is investment income not... income? How is taxing that at the same rate as income conveying an advantage?

        -Arrian
        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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        • #19
          I support every cut in the plan. In fact, I think the plan should be made so that as many people are angry about it as possible. I hope they pass it ASAP. There are things in it I do not like and think are highly unwise but I recognize that someone thinks that of every cut in the plan and everyone thinks that of some thing in the plan, so the plan is almost perfect!

          To everyone who intends to ***** about some failing of the plan, seriously consider whether you have a vested interest in that particular tax or expenditure. If I were a betting man, I would bet money on your objection being invalid. My own objections are probably invalid.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

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          • #20
            If neither Adam nor Bob will leave anything to their children then their lifetime consumption would have the same risk-adjusted present value before taxes (since they both earn the same amount). Therefore, both efficiency and equality imply that their after-tax consumption should also be equal.

            Capital gains taxes violate that requirement.
            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
            Stadtluft Macht Frei
            Killing it is the new killing it
            Ultima Ratio Regum

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Arrian View Post
              Why is investment income not... income? How is taxing that at the same rate as income conveying an advantage?

              -Arrian
              Because investment income represents simply the difference between the nominal value of consumption today and the nominal value of the same risk-adjusted present value of consumption in the future.
              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
              Stadtluft Macht Frei
              Killing it is the new killing it
              Ultima Ratio Regum

              Comment


              • #22
                edit: crosspost, thinking about your most recent post.

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                Comment


                • #23
                  YOUR DEBATE IS IRRELEVANT! PASS THIS TOMORROW
                  If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                  ){ :|:& };:

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Completely agree with KH on the capital gains taxes. It is not a good tax and it's a shame that it was inserted into an otherwise solid plan. But this is Washington, where modern financial theory seems to intrude little.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                    • #25
                      Ok, let's look at at this from another angle.

                      There are people who get their incomes just from investment income. This results in them paying a lower tax rate than people who get their income via salaried compensation.

                      This makes sense how?

                      -Arrian
                      grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                      The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        1$ consumption today and 1.50 consumption 15 years from now have the same value (they trade against each other at par). Therefore, charging tax on the 50 cent difference is no more sensible than charging a different tax on somebody who buys 2 50$ video games rather than 1 100$ game because 2 > 1
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          It's an interesting document. Not sure about the income tax cuts, though on board with capital gains and corporate tax cuts.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                            In favor of everything in there, basically.
                            QFT

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                              Argh. Didn't notice that they want to increase capital gains taxation

                              Dumbest tax ever.
                              Oh, ****. Nix my previous "QFT."

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                              • #30
                                This is a far better argument against the capital gains tax than anything I have heard on apolyton:



                                JM
                                Jon Miller-
                                I AM.CANADIAN
                                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                                Comment

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