An Open Letter to the White Right by Tim Wise

[Barnabas]

I think something like making college free for the brightest black students, and only letting people with college education to participate in politics, would have been better for South Africa, eventually, in a couple ofr decades, blacks would have taken over the administration of the country.

[Al B. Sure!]

I think something like making college free for the brightest black students, and only letting people with college education to participate in politics, would have been better for South Africa, eventually, in a couple ofr decades, blacks would have taken over the administration of the country.

They wanted freedom not some Jim Crow-style laws.

[Hauldren Collider]

And did Rhodesia get freedom?

For that matter, is South Africa actually a free country? (serious question--how credible is their democracy?)

[giblets]

And did Rhodesia get freedom?

For that matter, is South Africa actually a free country? (serious question--how credible is their democracy?)

allegedly at the same level as France and better than Israel

[Al B. Sure!]

And did Rhodesia get freedom?

For that matter, is South Africa actually a free country? (serious question--how credible is their democracy?)

Rhodesia is Zimbabwe now.

And rights and liberty in South Africa, particularly for the Black majority, are FAR better than they were under apartheid. In High School, the autobiographical "Kaffir Boy" was mandatory reading. It paints a terrible picture of oppression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_Index_of_African_Governance

The Ibrahim Index assesses national governance against 57 criteria. The criteria capture the quality of services provided to citizens by governments. The focus is on the results that the people of a country experience, rather than stated policies and intentions. Each criterion is weighted and scaled to provide standardisation and proportional influence on the overall results of the Index.
The criteria are divided into five over-arching categories which the Index defines as the cornerstone of a government’s obligations to its citizens:
Safety and Rule of Law,
Participation and Human Rights
Sustainable Economic Opportunity
Human Development

It gives a score... green is best... red is worst. You can figure the different shades of yellow and orange off of that relationship

[Hauldren Collider]

I know Rhodesia is Zimbabwe now. Is it a free country? (no.) I really don't care about your maps, Alby, Mugabe is a butcher and a dictator.

[Hauldren Collider]

allegedly at the same level as France and better than Israel

I wouldn't take those kinds of rankings particularly seriously. They tend to take points off for things like the UK's House of Lords and the Electoral College in the US and not for stuff like state media. To be fair, though, this one's general placement of countries in the four categories is largely reasonable.

[Al B. Sure!]

I know Rhodesia is Zimbabwe now. Is it a free country? (no.) I really don't care about your maps, Alby, Mugabe is a butcher and a dictator.

That's why Zimbabwe is orange and not green, silly goose

[SpencerH]

The true test for South African democracy will come after Nelson Mandela's death. SA bucked the odds for race-war and became a democracy but I believe that was due to Mandela's leadership. When he's gone we may see the disaster that we previously expected, though I obviously hope not.

[C0ckney]

That's why Zimbabwe is yellow and not green, silly goose

It's just apparently not at Somalia, DRC, Chad, or Sudan levels yet.

err on your map it's orange, the same colour as the DRC and sudan...

[Jaguar]

Albie's map fits pretty well with my general understanding of how well-governed various African countries are. That index seems reasonably legit.

[Kuciwalker]

Except he should have said "gray is worst".

[Aeson]

I wouldn't have thought you would be against mixing between white and black

[Al B. Sure!]

Albie's map fits pretty well with my general understanding of how well-governed various African countries are. That index seems reasonably legit.

I'm a little surprised that Kenya isn't greenish, though. I guess the violence in 2007 took them down a notch.

[SpencerH]

I may be behind the times, but AFAIK Kenya has virtually constant racial (tribal) tension and violence.