Germany never changes... German leader says multiculturalism has failed.

[DriXnaK]

You guys are misreading what I said. I specifically stated that the way Finns for example handle crime is a sign of them weakening. The fact that we have so many people incarcerated is a testament to the will of our people and the strength of our nation to punish those who commit crimes. Also, any country that doesn't have the death penalty is a joke. If you can't kill someone after they murder someone then you are weak and disgusting.

[Dinner]

Shut up. Seriously, no one cares what you think.

[laurentius]

So there is no moderation anymore? No Ming, Rah or whatshisname?

[DriXnaK]

Oerdin, why do you just barrel through threads ignoring everything that doesn't work out for you? You never answered how hispanics are a race. You just ignore everything and then come up with some lame attempt at an insult. Face it, you're an idiot. You're intellectually and genetically inferior. You should accept your inferiority and move on with your life.

[Dinner]

No, I just mostly make fun of people like you.

[Dinner]

Shut up. Seriously, no one cares what you think.

No, we fired them. Now we live in an anarcho-syndacist commune.

[DriXnaK]

How are you making fun of me? Your posts are that of a grade schooler, completely lacking any wit or style.

[Dinner]

Shall we have a vote on that?

[laurentius]

I miss the evil empire already. Asher was banned for at least some of the time. Now I'm too afraid to even take a look at the Tech forum.

[DriXnaK]

Feel free to start a poll Oerdin.

[Provost Harrison]

It's because of Poles that our attitude to immigration is so negative

[onodera]

Ozzy, rah, would you please get off your high horse of tolerance? Modern Muslim immigration into the EU is considerably different from the classical and medieval European integration, and its this very difference that is causing the problem.

First, previous integration endeavors were violent. The Romans impressed their laws, their language, their material culture on their colonies. If your land was now yours, you had to conform. The Saxons did the same to the Wends, and the modern Latvians were created in the Teutonic Crusades.

Second, and it's obvious from the examples above, the influence was mainly exported: it's the culture that entered a foreign land, not foreign people entering the metropoly. Yes, there were precendents of barbarians coming into and settling in the Roman empire, but we all know how this ended. It took several centuries for the Jews to adopt the culture of their new homelands, and this process was only helped not by their eagerness, but by the onset of liberalism and the freedom of religion that followed.

Third, it was mainly the elite that was influenced by the new culture. No one cared about the common folk, who stayed in their villages with their local culture and prejudices. Their integration was slow and gradual.

If you look at the Muslim cultural sphere, dominated by the Arabs, you see the same thing: Mohammed united Arabia with fire and steel, imposing his supracultural Islam on the different tribes; his successors exported his vision into Byzantium and Persia and Visigothia, destroying the local states; it took several centuries for the local to convert, thereby escaping the oppression of being dhimmi.

But now we have a completely different situation: EU is letting anyone in without demanding any conformance to the local culture, they are not exporting their culture to the countries these people come from, and there's no respected local elite through which to influence the community. Well, there is such an elite called religious leaders, but it's hard to get them to convert to the European values.

Even Turkey itself recognised this problem 90 years ago. Ataturk voluntarily acted as a paragon of European culture: he severed all ties with the Arabic heritage, demoted religion to a cultural value of secondary importance, adopted Latin alphabet and created a new elite, the military, which could be used to influence the general populace. Not everything went as planned (although many people overstate the danger of current Turkish government: they are about as religious as CDU/CSU or any contemporary mainstream American politician; they're no radical Islamists), but it was a huge step forward on the way to European integration.

The USA are different: first, they export their cultural values all over the world with their movies and music, their corporations and their military bases. This, combined with stricter immigration laws, results in immigrants better suited to integration.

What can be done to improve the situation in the EU? Well, the steps are obvious yet cause so much commotion. No one is going to force Turks to eat pork sausages and drink beer to show their allegiance to Germany. Only those should be let in that can prove they share European cultural values, this means:
- language test
- tolerance test (what, in your opinion, should be the penalty for apostasy, blasphemy, homosexuality, extramarital sex, etc?)
- general culture test (who were Luther, Charlemagne, Napoleon, da Vinci, etc?)

If you import your relatives or immigrate through a special channel (e.g., you are a Volga German), you get 3 months of counselling and then you have to take the test. Fail it, and you don't get any welfare and in 3 months you have to take it again.

If you are a child of two first-generation immirgants, you take the same test when you graduate from your junior high school. Fail it, and you get to spend another year in school, and your parents get a visit from the immigration and integration officials.

Letting all this sort itself out (which is what Germany has been trying for the past 20 years) simply doesn't work. This is what Merkel admitted. This doesn't make the Germans racist intolerant klansmen.

[dannubis]

You guys are misreading what I said. I specifically stated that the way Finns for example handle crime is a sign of them weakening. The fact that we have so many people incarcerated is a testament to the will of our people and the strength of our nation to punish those who commit crimes. Also, any country that doesn't have the death penalty is a joke. If you can't kill someone after they murder someone then you are weak and disgusting.

That, or it is proof of how your society is screwed up and forces certain demographics into poverty and crime.

As usual the truth will lie in the middle, but moderation is something that ****heads like you don't understand. So go back cheating at CIV 2. At least you were moderately funny back then.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

It's because of Poles that our attitude to immigration is so negative

yes they greatly improved England with the polish sausages and Sliwowica, but the locals are resisting

[onodera]

yes they greatly improved England with the polish sausages and Sliwowica, but the locals are resisting

The locals would have to **** into broken toilets and lick their dishes clean if there were no Poles around.