Germany never changes... German leader says multiculturalism has failed.

[Robert]

You guys honestly just need to get a grip and quit being such damned racists. I'd hate for you guys to do something rash again, and necessitate us coming back to kick your ass like we did in the 40's.

First: You Godwin, you lose.

2nd: you seem to know hardly anything about european politics. You most probably only read a couple of headlines. If you name Merkel a nutjob then you don't know what you're talking about. She's the most political correct prime minister of Europe. (as all Germans have been since WWII, for obvious reasons).

You also work with numbers. Because the USA has larger number of minorities, we shouldn't make a big deal out of it. It's not about numbers. It's about differences, as I said earlier in this thread. The differences are bigger in Europe because we attract a different kind of immigrants.

Lastly you definition of racism is completely off the table. Setting rules and protecting ones one culture has nothing to do with racism. Racism is that you treat different people differently.
And please stop godwinning. Talking about populism and demagogy, the godwin is the uber form of populism and demagogy.

[dannubis]

How do we demand people learn English? We don't even have an official language.

Yet you sidestep the very valid point he makes about the US de facto enforcing "protective measures" mostly targetting a single minority (i.e. the Spanish speaking people).

And you 'd hate US to do something rash ??? *pun intended*

[OzzyKP]

Setting rules and protecting ones one culture has nothing to do with racism. Racism is that you treat different people differently.

[DaShi]

Look, there's an easy way to tell if your on the racist side of an argument:

Non-racist side | Heracletus's side

[BeBMan]

Guys, whatever points can be made about European "racism" or "multiculturalism" in general, getting people to learn the friggin language isn't in any way part of some racist program. That is simply not the way the debate runs here. As far as I can tell there also aren't any absurd demands like "learn German or you'll be deported", the whole debate is mainly centered around education and what can be done to improve it. The only thing that sometimes is debated in the field of sanctions is if social welfare money should be tied to certain things (like doing a language course or so). But that isn't in any way special - unemployed Germans can see cuts too if they refuse to do certain qualification measures offered to make them more fit on the job market.

The people who are mostly ****ed if they dunno how to speak in the country *they are permanently living in* are those immigrants or those with immigrant backgrounds who missed the boat since their parents never learned the language and - worse - didn't care if their children who are often now German citizens ever started learning it in school. These are the ones who will end up in low paying jobs (with luck) or unemployed, criminal or even - at least in some cases - as extremists not because they're brown people or muslims, but mostly because without knowing the mainstream language you just don't have that many chances - that is pretty much the same everywhere.

Since the first wave of immigration after WWII to western Germany was regarded as "guest workers" for low skilled work (means they were thought to work for a while, then leave on their own again) education was thought to be unimportant (they also didn't have their kids with them in the beginning), and in result we have now a certain layer of society that is basically doomed to be underclass. This is bad for them and bad for the rest of society in case they end up indeed as criminals or purely living on social welfare.

[OzzyKP]

Every generation of the United States has experienced huge amounts of immigration and fretted about immigrants not learning the language. In every case they are proved wrong when the kids of immigrants learn perfect English and do a fairly good job of assimilating.

[Heraclitus]

Look, there's an easy way to tell if your on the racist side of an argument:

Non-racist side | Heracletus's side

I'll go a bit off topic now and argue that all people die eventually, Geocentricism is incorrect and that sick people sometimes need medicine to survive.

[Robert]

Setting rules and protecting ones one culture has nothing to do with racism. Racism is that you treat different people differently.

based on their race, I should have added

[Robert]

Every generation of the United States has experienced huge amounts of immigration and fretted about immigrants not learning the language. In every case they are proved wrong when the kids of immigrants learn perfect English and do a fairly good job of assimilating.

We're dealing here with 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants that do still not integrate.
We're not even talking about assimilating. (I would not support the need for assimilation, btw. Integration is good enough.)

[Whoha]

Every generation of the United States has experienced huge amounts of immigration and fretted about immigrants not learning the language. In every case they are proved wrong when the kids of immigrants learn perfect English and do a fairly good job of assimilating.

Every generation of the United States has not experienced huge amounts of immigration.

[DaShi]

Maybe you shouldn't marginalize them.

[Monk]

Ozzy,

You see a couple of nutter demagogues complaining about it, but is there a law to stop the Mosque? No. We don't have minaret bans or burqua bans here.

Neither does a vast majority of European countries, just for the record. Perhaps if you believe that Europeans are making unfair generalisations on the basis of a single idiotic prist, you'd grant us the kind favour of not equating Europe with Switzerland.

Maybe you need to talk to some more of those "you Europeans" (you can drop by any time, beer's on me!). I don't know many people of the inclination that you describe.

In this country, where ethnicity and skin color is a bigger deal than religion we are 12.4% Black, 15.4% Hispanic, 4.4% Asian, and 4.9% some other non-white race.

That's a case of apples and oranges you've got there. Maybe you should think about why religion is more of an issue to Europe than the United States and give us your best shot.

You guys honestly just need to get a grip and quit being such damned racists. I'd hate for you guys to do something rash again, and necessitate us coming back to kick your ass like we did in the 40's.

Seriously dude, are you getting an erection while you're writing this? Come on man, it's an interesting subject, and you should be able to argue your way properly instead of pulling off this lame old trick. Same goes for you, Al. B. (love the name, btw.)

[Monk]

One more thing - I'd wager the number of Muslims/people of Muslim background who were ever elected U.S. congressmen is lower than in most European countries with any substantial Muslim population. That's not to get into a pissing contest, but I think that maybe you're a wee bit too fast in underestimating the importance of religion - or Islam - in the States as well.

[DinoDoc]

Every generation of the United States has experienced huge amounts of immigration and fretted about immigrants not learning the language. In every case they are proved wrong when the kids of immigrants learn perfect English and do a fairly good job of assimilating.

We're not talking about that here. We're talking about a general policy on the European continent that retards assimilation and in France at least has led to the government ceding civil authority of slums and not allowing police officers to enter.

[DaShi]

Yeah, well, How many black presidents does Wonderhagen have? Hmm? Huh? Hmmm?