Sticky: Poll: Damnit vs Dammit

[Frozzy]

Because a silent n followed by a vowel is very rare in English.

So? There are plenty of exceptions in languages, being as they are alive, organic and not codified. This is why dictionaries are of such limited use apropos of colloquialisms. Go and speak Esperanto or Latin if you don't like it.

Very seldom has anyone, in the history of the English language, has thought when writing the word "yes, that's actually quite a rare spelling isn't it. I shall compile some statistics. It appears that n-[vowel] is quite rare. I shall therefore spell it in a different fashion in order to conform to unwritten convention."

What people actually think, is "hm, it's a colloquialism, therefore I'll write it as it I say it". Which is fine. Other people, such as the people who voted for "damnit", mentally think of it as a contraction of damn and it, which is also fine.

However, phonetic spelling is nonsense, by and large. You can get away with it in colloquialisms such as this, but, particularly with regional and colonial accents, it is, in a word, useless.

You're more than welcome to continue to fly the flag of Mr. Webster however if you want. I just have little time for attempts to pigeon holing a wonderful and organic language.

[Al B. Sure!]

Frozzy:

As Barnabas points out, English being constrained by things like "A silent n followed by a vowel is very rare in English" is silly. English is a confusing language with bizarre spellings to begin with!

Oh and it's not rare, at least no more rare than words with silent n's are.

Damning, condemning... that's two more right there.

The rule is 'n' is not pronounced when following 'm' at the end of a word. This i thing is bullcrap but Kuci wants to sound learned.

[Kuciwalker]

However, phonetic spelling is nonsense, by and large. You can get away with it in colloquialisms such as this, but, particularly with regional and colonial accents, it is, in a word, useless.

You're more than welcome to continue to fly the flag of Mr. Webster however if you want. I just have little time for attempts to pigeon holing a wonderful and organic language.

You're incoherent. Please reconcile your "English is a wonderful, diverse language" thesis with disdain for a particular style of spelling.

[Barnabas]

There is nothing nonsensical about phonetic spelling.

[Frozzy]

Language is fundamentally an organic construct, it's not some sort of codified rule set you have to learn by rote and not deviate from. It's also culturally driven, which is as big a critique of codified rules as you can get. That's not confined to English, just look at Quebec French and French French for a classic example, or variants of Spanish.

I don't particularly mind if people spell "spelt" or "spelled", both are perfectly fine and aren't totally out of step with other past participles etc.

Where the problem comes is when phonetic spelling overspills elsewhere, which is where accent issues come in. It's particularly bad here in New Zealand with young children who simply cannot spell simple words due to a preference for phonetic teaching and division into separate syllables.

[Kuciwalker]

As Barnabas points out, English being constrained by things like "A silent n followed by a vowel is very rare in English" is silly. English is a confusing language with bizarre spellings to begin with!

What the **** are you on? Seriously, AS, you persistently are incapable of reading and understanding people's posts. It wasn't a normative statement, it was an observation.

Oh and it's not rare, at least no more rare than words with silent n's are.

Damning, condemning... that's two more right there.

There are seven-ish distinct words in common English use that end in nm:

autumn
column
condemn/damn (these are just variants of the same root and mean basically the same thing)
contemn
column
hymn
solemn

Condemn and damn each have one form in which the silent n is followed by a [non-silent] vowel: the -ing form, similarly contemning. The variant forms of all of the others follow the pattern that the n is not silent when followed by a spoken vowel: hymnal, columnated, solemnity... and so when representing a spoken contraction it is reasonable and useful to use use a phonetic spelling because the other spelling suggests the wrong pronunciation.

[Al B. Sure!]

hymning

Also, damnify you pronounce the 'n'... it's all pretty random if you ask me.

[Kuciwalker]

Oh no, you found the except to what I said, that follows exactly the same pattern as the other exceptions

And damnify: /ˈdæmnəˌfaɪ/ [dam-nuh-fahy]

[Al B. Sure!]

And damnify: /ˈdæmnəˌfaɪ/ [dam-nuh-fahy]

Did I not say that in damnify you pronounce the n?

[Kuciwalker]

Misread your post. Given how consistently you do that, I think I deserve a pass.

[ZEE]

.

[Asher]

You're over-thinking it Kuci.

From dictionary.com


It's apparently also a Blink 182 song. Doesn't Asher love Blink 182?

I CANNOT STAND BLINK 182

[Dauphin]

In that case, then, write those words differently. I also pronounce the t in often, and I only stopped pronouncing the B in Dumb two years ago.

I see nothing wrong with pronouncing the t in often. Or saying dam-nit. I do it occasionally.