NYC refudiates Palin.

[Imran Siddiqui]

That said, if their intention is truly to make bridges with the local community it would appear they failed. The continued insistence to put it there despite the now known reaction of the community speaks to something beside interfaith outreach.

That they won't be bullied by a handful of bigots? I think that is also good for interfaith outreach, that they won't bow to those who are intollerant.

Besides, in 3 months, no one will care.

[Wezil]

"a handful"?

[Wezil]

Someone cite some numbers b/c I get the impression the opposition is more widespread.

[Boris Godunov]

My impression is the opposition is both local and national.

Manhattanites supported the center 46%-36% according to a Businessweek poll. The center has considerable support from those in the immediate neighborhood as well. The real hub of opposition in NYC is Staten Island, which isn't surprising, and frankly unimpressive.

I'm not suggesting they cower before bigots. If the locals are bigots you don't/won't win them over by making your first step the building of something they see as provocative. That isn't outreach, it is something else.

The locals aren't bigots, that's the point. Most don't mind the center. And even for those that say they do, their opposition is probably fairly soft--people who espouse weak-kneed protests like, "oh, it's going to hurt people's feelings!" It's only a small minority that is being very vocal in its protests.

Once the center is built, most of the angst over it will blow over. People will have moved on to other things to get in a huff over, and it will be treated like all the other mosques and Islamic buildings in New York--no big deal.

[Wezil]

So 36% are opposed (just in Manhatten)?

That's way more than "a handful" or "small minority".

[Boris Godunov]

So 36% are opposed (just in Manhatten)?

That's way more than "a handful" or "small minority".

As I said, not all opposition is going to be the extremely strong kind. You know how polling works, it doesn't leave room for much nuance. I'd bet a healthy chunk of those who express opposition in a poll won't give a damn in the long run if it's built. They'll shrug and move on. The portion of that 36% that cares enough to shout down others at public meetings is indeed a handful.

At what level of polling is it acceptable for them to proceed? 100% support only? 90%? 80%? Maybe they should have to put their plan to a public referendum, unlike any other group, to avoid accusations of ulterior motives or insensitivity to certain interests.

[Snotty]

Youre trying to apply rural thinking to cosmopolitan values. NimBY doesnt work when no one has a backyard

[Wezil]

As I said, I think they can proceed regardless of polling providing they meet building and zoning codes, but if 36% of the people think it is a bad idea (depth of support varies as well Boris) then I don't buy the "outreach" argument. There is a bigger motive at play.

[Boris Godunov]

As I said, I think they can proceed regardless of polling providing they meet building and zoning codes, but if 36% of the people think it is a bad idea (depth of support varies as well Boris) then I don't buy the "outreach" argument. There is a bigger motive at play.

Yes, obviously they are planning to train terrorists at their center in lower Manhattan.

Yeah, depth of support varies, but it doesn't even need to have outright support. If it were 62% "Don't care" vs. 36% "No," the point would still be the same, since most people could care less about anything else that's being built in that neighborhood. Most NYers don't care what's built one block over from them. The only reason we know what they think is because news outlets are sensationalizing a story ginned up by cynical interests.

Even if the center isn't going to be successful in its outreach efforts, that's hardly reason to suppose there are ulterior motives behind said outreach efforts. I doubt you'd make that same assumption were it a Jewish Synagogue. It's certainly possible the supporters are miscalculating its effectiveness, but that in no way sullies their motives.

[Wezil]

All right. Put words in my mouth and then roll your eyes at me. Classy argument. I thought you were better than that.

Didn't read the rest. Carry on.

[Boris Godunov]

Hey, if you're going to post vague, baseless accusations of a group having ulterior motives, then don't whine if someone connects the dots (facetiously, I might add) in a way you don't like. Either say what you believe they're "up to" and cite some evidence for it, or move along.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hey, if you're going to post vague, baseless accusations of a group having ulterior motives, then don't whine if someone connects the dots (facetiously, I might add) in a way you don't like. Either say what you believe they're "up to" and cite some evidence for it, or move along.

[rah]

Even if half that 36% are truly against it and will be upset if it's built, that's almost 1-5 people. While I believe that they have the right to build there, it's probably in their best interest to let the heat blow over for awhile. If by forcing the issue now they're pissing off 1 in 5 locals, I think there are better ways to get others to look more positive towards your religion. Those 36% are idiots regardless.

It's hard to win someone over when your actions show that you don't care what they think. (Even if it's wrong)

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Per previous thread

Red Eye

http://www.dailygut.com/?i=4696

and the response

.@greggutfeld You're free to open whatever you like. If you won't consider the sensibilities of Muslims, you're not going to build dialog
about 1 hour ago via web

http://twitter.com/Park51/status/20818165487

Damn Gutfeld for intentionally provoking folks with known sensitivities and dare I say it small minded bigotry

[N35t0r]

Hm?

36% is closer to 1/3