NYC refudiates Palin.

[Kuciwalker]

What does this have to do with building a mosque near Ground Zero?

Replace it with "said no to Nazis marching in Skokie".

[Imran Siddiqui]

"But we would be untrue to the best part of ourselves, and who we are as New Yorkers and Americans, if we said no to a mosque in lower Manhattan."

America: **** Yeah

[Boris Godunov]

I imagine you don't think Bill Clinton was a ****ty president, even though he had similar sexual foibles to Giuliani and benefited from most of the same economic good luck. I think we all know the reason for this discrepancy.

I, on the other hand, think both Clinton and Giuliani performed well in their respective leadership positions.

I've always had mixed feelings about Clinton, but the one thing we can't deny is that the U.S. had a budget surplus when he left office. My complaints as to Giuliani as a mayor don't stem so much from his sexual foibles as to the fact that he let said foibles dramatically interfere with his management of the city (see crisis command center mentioned above). Beyond that, he didn't do crap to improve the schools, he left the budget a mess and despite the touting of his being tough on crime, in reality he benefited from a national decrease in crime during the economic boom while severely harming relations between the NYPD and the city's minority communities. I mean, justifying cops shooting an unarmed person by releasing his sealed juvenile records? That was a dick move that typified his awfulness.

[Boris Godunov]

What does this have to do with building a mosque near Ground Zero?

Because the religious bigotry fueling the protests is contrary to core American principles.

Also the thread title bugs me. Refudiates? Really?

I've a hard time believing you didn't hear about that particular Palin idiocy.

[DinoDoc]

Because the religious bigotry fueling the protests is contrary to core American principles.

Bigotry maybe fueling some of the opposition to the location of the mosque but I fail to see why such a thing is inextricably linked to it anymore than Jewish demands in 1998 that the Catholic Church remove a church from a former SS administration building at Birkenau demonstrates a deep seated hatred of Christians.

I've a hard time believing you didn't hear about that particular Palin idiocy.

Liberals such as yourself on this board seem to care about her and her foibles more than I do. Though I do find it strange you mention this as if it should make the thread title less annoying.

[Boris Godunov]

Bigotry maybe fueling some of the opposition to the location of the mosque but I fail to see why such a thing is inextricably linked to it anymore than Jewish demands in 1998 that the Catholic Church remove a church from a former SS administration building at Birkenau demonstrates a deep seated hatred of Christians.

Come on, this deliberate obtuseness is beyond even your usual shtick. What other grounds for opposition to it are there?

Liberals such as yourself on this board seem to care about her and her foibles more than I do. Though I do find it strange you mention this as if it should make the thread title less annoying.

Making fun of politicians is de rigueur here and most places on the internet. You're only butthurt over it because it's Palin.

[Kuciwalker]

DD: see my response.

[Caligastia]

I'd be more worried about the ground zero mosque if the Imam who wants it built was some frothing-at-the-mouth supporter of terrorism, but from what I've read he's quite the opposite. He seems to want to westernize and modernize Islam, which I'm all in favor of.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And the reference to Cordoba is about the tolerant (at least for the time) society in Cordoba, Spain, during the time the Muslims ruled there. The Imam wants to showcase a tolerant & modern Islam in contrast to the *******s who took down the WTC.

[Drake Tungsten]

Cool, that logic makes Bush a terrible president. And Obama will most likely be a good president.

Apparently someone hasn't looked at the unemployment numbers in a couple years...

[Guynemer]

I'd take Gingrich and Palin, et al, far more seriously on this issue if they called for the removal of all Christian churches from Oklahoma City. I shant be holding my breath.

[Drake Tungsten]

I was unaware that Timothy McVeigh was particularly religious.

[Guynemer]

I think the more important fact is that they were murderers, as opposed to Muslim or Christian or Zoroastrian or Atheist or Pastafarian.

Now, if they were erected a monument to murderers in general, or murder as a concept, then I'd be worked up. Even so, there's a reason we have the First Amendment.

[Boris Godunov]

McVeigh was Catholic, IIRC. He did cite God in some of his writings, but not nearly as much as he ranted about his extreme paranoid thoughts about the government.

[Zevico]

And the reference to Cordoba is about the tolerant (at least for the time) society in Cordoba, Spain, during the time the Muslims ruled there. The Imam wants to showcase a tolerant & modern Islam in contrast to the *******s who took down the WTC.

To correct the record: there were multiple Muslim empires in Spain during its history and while some of those empires did treat non-Muslims as second-class citizens, others left non-Muslims with the choice of conversion or execution. Equally, Muslim Empires in India had mixed records with respect to Hindu pagans. This mixed record is pretty much what explicitly "Christian" nations granted to their peoples. So I hardly see what this "positive" record demonstrates.

Even assuming your contention were true, what would it demonstrate anyway? A dictatorship which didn't happen to engage in widespread murder of those who didn't subscribe to its religious principles, but which was otherwise corrupt and explicitly founded on the notion of world domination by force of the faith in question. Truly a magical time in history.