Free will vs determinism

[zakubandit]

Personally I feel free will is a misconception. Your born into a world where it is predetermined that you WILL go to school, you WILL obey every law, you WILL get a job, you WILL earn money, you WILL spend money, you WILL need to pay bills, you WILL etc. The false sense of free will is that you really don't have choices to make in life other than this or that. If you choose to not go to school you won't get a job and won't earn money and then its all garbage. You choose not to do this or that and this or that closes off....in our society today if you do not do what is expected of you then you will not have many choices to choose from because you won't be able to do anything you want.

Now of course, there is an exception....those people who know how to get from America to Tibet with a backpack and bottle of water without spending a dime.

Free will is a disguise for control, because everyone in the world is controlled by someone else in some way shape or form and it will always be that way. If you are born in America you will have to work at some point if you plan on earning an income to do anything.

[Flubber]

I have to go with determinism.

While I cannot decide

[Flubber]

Personally I feel free will is a misconception. Your born into a world where it is predetermined that you WILL go to school, you WILL obey every law, you WILL get a job, you WILL earn money, you WILL spend money, you WILL need to pay bills, you WILL etc. The false sense of free will is that you really don't have choices to make in life other than this or that. If you choose to not go to school you won't get a job and won't earn money and then its all garbage. You choose not to do this or that and this or that closes off....in our society today if you do not do what is expected of you then you will not have many choices to choose from because you won't be able to do anything you want.

Now of course, there is an exception....those people who know how to get from America to Tibet with a backpack and bottle of water without spending a dime.

Free will is a disguise for control, because everyone in the world is controlled by someone else in some way shape or form and it will always be that way. If you are born in America you will have to work at some point if you plan on earning an income to do anything.

Interesting idea but if I stuck you alone on continent a gazillion years ago with no humans for 10000 miles you would likewise be constrained in where your free will could take you without there being someone else. You WILL stay in proximity to water sources, you WILL seek food and eat, You WILL construct shelter. You WILL avoid the desert etc etc

So I don't think that it is necessarily other people or society that constrains free will. I think the constraint is a function of available resources and abilities and that constraint would exist even in the absence of other people. heck I would argue that additional people generally increase your choices not decrease them-- and you have the option to choose to reject all societal norms (just don't be surprised if you get executed if you choose to rape and kill people)

[zakubandit]

Interesting idea but if I stuck you alone on continent a gazillion years ago with no humans for 10000 miles you would likewise be constrained in where your free will could take you without there being someone else. You WILL stay in proximity to water sources, you WILL seek food and eat, You WILL construct shelter. You WILL avoid the desert etc etc

So I don't think that it is necessarily other people or society that constrains free will. I think the constraint is a function of available resources and abilities and that constraint would exist even in the absence of other people. heck I would argue that additional people generally increase your choices not decrease them-- and you have the option to choose to reject all societal norms (just don't be surprised if you get executed if you choose to rape and kill people)

Your right that resources to restrict, but that is out the area of free will (mentally, emotionally, spiritually) than requirements for life (physically).

You can choose not to eat or drink, but you will die so the choice is made already because of the will to live (not taking into account sucidals). The free will we are speaking of is the (insert word that means it is there but you can't see it) of free will that exists in our inner being. As a citizen of a tribe in some far off land a young girl has no free will because everything is decided for her. In America it is similar, not as blunt, because you have things decided for you (ie: school, work, bills, etc.) because control is there and you can't fight it.

Now my free will DOES allow for me to say, 'I don't like this so I am going to change it' but if society doesn't want the change then it stops there. Free will is a facade, the choice is to accept the control over your world by another person or group of persons or be an outcast, imprisoned, or even killed in some cases. Choice is a lie, the choice was made the moment breath entered your lungs...you will obey or you won't have a live to make choices in. Your only choice, cream and sugar or black (analogy for small choices in life).

[bipolarbear]

I don't think you understand Free Will. There is still a choice possible. It may not be a palatable one, but it is a choice nonetheless. Thus there is free will. The circumstances you find yourself in do not alter the fundamental metaphysics of the universe (or perhaps just the human condition). So, even though you may side with the likes of Rosseau regarding society and human development, your argument is still invalid.

[N35t0r]

It's not that there is or isn't a choice, its that a choice can be made.

Its useless to have all the choices in the world if you're going to pick the same one very time.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I was forced to post this... aaaaarrrggghhhhh