Some Muslim groups just seem to love being public enemy number one.

[Imran Siddiqui]

In the Old Testament God often used the Jews as his instrument. This is similar to how God in the Koran used the Muslims to do his work, but just because those wars were commanded by God it doesn't mean that one is justified now to wage any kind of war in the present time. Neither is one justified in disregarding the numerous Islamic rules of war including prohibitions against attacking the innocent, women, children, mosques (etc), like the Taliban and others have done.

Quite right and wise in that if you disregard context you miss the plot. I mean if you read the Book of Joshua, the Jews slaughtered everyone in many cities in the land of Israel that had been given to them. That doesn't mean they get to slaughter everyone NOW that resides in that land that God gave to them. It would be reading the text completely out of the context it was written and ignoring that it is a part of a story.

[Kidlicious]

Really Oerdin, wake up. I have my own issues with (much, including main stream variants, of ) Islam's approach to the use of violence, yet your statement that Islam orders the killing of everyone else is so nutty that it doesn't require direct refutation.

I'm glad that you know TEH TRUTH about Islam though, congratulations.

He's got a point about Jesus having different character from Mohammed.

[Imran Siddiqui]

While that is true, Kid. Mohammed does have a similar character to plenty of Jewish leaders, who are not disowned by Christianity. Though Jesus does show us a different way; one of love and caring for others, even those that hurt us.

[Wernazuma III]

He's got a point about Jesus having different character from Mohammed.

Well, duh, what a genius. I nominate him for a Nobel Prize for puzzling that out.
It wasn't particularily my point that both were twins in mind or that all religions give the same opportunities, fig leaves and excuses for violence, or are "bout the same anyway" as they are in Civ 4...

Oerdin's opinion regarding Islam and the relation between muslims and the rest of the world is still ridiculous.

[Dinner]

Ugandan police found unexploded explosives, ball barrings, and a suicide vest following yesterday's Muslim terror attack.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/africa/10615652.stm

[bumfister]

I honestly don't know where you get off defending Islam; it must just be a throw back to when you were a Muslim. Speaking of which according to the Koran faithful Muslims are supposed to kill anyone who gives up Islam and converts to another religion so one would guess you'd not like that bit. How is that not evil to order people killed because they decide on a different religion? Look up what the Koran says about apostates. I call holy books ordering the murder of people because of their religion evil and you claim that's bigoted.

I for one would like to hear the anwser to this. If apostates are supposed to be killed and if Imran is an apostate then what does he think of that command?

[Heraclitus]

Islam is misunderstood. I used to think Islam would be the downfall of Western civlization, but looking at the Middle Eastern birth rates it becomes clear it was never just about the religion itself. And looking at Bosnia its clear something like a Western Islam could as easily be constructed as was a Western Christianity.

Islam isn't that bad, its about comparable to Judaism. And Judaism has been shown to be tamable even when they aren't a minority (Israel may have its frummy Jews but its a long way from the Taliban)

[Wernazuma III]

Quite right and wise in that if you disregard context you miss the plot. I mean if you read the Book of Joshua, the Jews slaughtered everyone in many cities in the land of Israel that had been given to them. That doesn't mean they get to slaughter everyone NOW that resides in that land that God gave to them. It would be reading the text completely out of the context it was written and ignoring that it is a part of a story.

Exactly. Of course, though, groups who want to "to slaughter everyone NOW that resides in that land that God gave to them" can easily use those bible passages as convenient ideological lining. Which is, of course, what fundamentalist muslims do with their texts.

[Kidlicious]

Well, duh, what a genius. I nominate him for a Nobel Prize for puzzling that out.
It wasn't particularily my point that both were twins in mind or that all religions give the same opportunities, fig leaves and excuses for violence, or are "bout the same anyway" as they are in Civ 4...

Oerdin's opinion regarding Islam and the relation between muslims and the rest of the world is still ridiculous.

Well sure it is, but then it's also ridiculous the opinions people have about Jesus. For example, the opinion that Jesus came to save the Jews from the sins of the Romans. That's how Mohammed thought. Jesus came into the world to save each and every individual (Jew and Gentile) from their own sins. It's fundamentally different.

[Wernazuma III]

Well sure it is, but then it's also ridiculous the opinions people have about Jesus. For example, the opinion that Jesus came to save the Jews from the sins of the Romans. That's how Mohammed thought. Jesus came into the world to save each and every individual (Jew and Gentile) from their own sins. It's fundamentally different.

Many religious thoughts and thoughts about religion (or of religions about other religions) are ridiculous.

Of course, it's fundamentally different. Anyway, what Jesus's nature was and why/how he came into the world and what role he plays in the divine plan has been subject to endless opinions, so "Jesus came into the world to save each and every individual (Jew and Gentile) from their own sins" is only one opinion among many, although a quite mainstream one.

Then again, I'm not sure what you actually wanted to say with your post.

[Kidlicious]

Well there's very little to back up the opinion that his goal was anything else than what is stated in the Bible.