Anyone here read anything from Julius Caesar?

[Al B. Sure!]

I HATED MEMORIZING THAT DAMN PASSAGE.
Commentarii de Bello Gallico

You took Latin or something? Who takes Latin? I'm surprised any school that is not Catholic even offers that. I suppose it could be useful for some things but overall, it's more practical to learn a living language.

[Dauphin]

Learning Latin helps you learn several living languages.

[Al B. Sure!]

Still not saying anything to the fact that you'd still be better off (have more practical use) out of just learning Spanish than Latin.

If you're trying to claim that knowing Latin will help you learn French AND Italian, I'm not sure a prior knowledge of Latin is anymore useful than a prior knowledge of Spanish. Probably will help with learning the other languages just as much. Only difference is, you would actually have known a more practical language to begin with.

And that anyway says nothing for those who are learning only their first non-native 'second' language.

[VetLegion]

Latin is still a language you learn in part of the grammar school (I guess it is still the case, it was for me 20 years ago)

Was true for me too. I did not mind. It's a nice language.

[VetLegion]

How do you southern slavs feel about the former roman latin past of your land? Do you (plural) think you killed the roman population? mixed with them peacefully? dominated them and imposed your language?

It's rather interesting. The slavic languages have come to dominate completely.
They did not merge with Latin, they did not inherit names of hills or streams or
plants or animals from Latin.

This suggests, to me, a rather brutal or sudden invasion in which the local population
was either killed or dispersed to far away locations.

Genetic evidence, however, seems to suggest that local populations don't have a
big admixture of "slavic" genetic markers. Also, general population features seem
local. I don't know what to think of it. The most logical explanation would be that
the domestic "illyrian" population already spoke some language that is either slavic
or related

[Al B. Sure!]

Was true for me too. I did not mind. It's a nice language.

Not in America. We stopped that crap like 40 years ago!

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I do not think that there were any city razing/slaughter actually recorded by the slavs when they came in, imo it was most likely the numbers game, where there were more numerous than the ingedenous population, and their language took over/mixed and with various influences over the centuries you are at the present Croatian language...

there were I think about 7 remaining (small) areas where romance languages were spoken until late 19th century... from WWI and ultimately WWII wiped them out though, in the end the commies effectively erradicating those communities as they represented a "claim" by the imperialist/fascists Italians so that was all "cleared out"... but prior to that people lived along each other fine for centuries... romance communities were getting smaller though, but as I said probably just the question of population growth/immigration dynamics...

Croatian as a language developed further from latin in last 80 years or so, as we were in Yugoslavia. Croatian 100 years ago was full or romanic words (apparently as much as 1/5th or of vocabulary in use were "latin" versions), but with 20th century uphevals in the area those trends were reversed strongly.

I think until mid 19th century, the main newspaper in Zagreb was on latin as well...

[Al B. Sure!]

It's rather interesting. The slavic languages have come to dominate completely.
They did not merge with Latin, they did not inherit names of hills or streams or
plants or animals from Latin.

This suggests, to me, a rather brutal or sudden invasion in which the local population
was either killed or dispersed to far away locations.

Genetic evidence, however, seems to suggest that local populations don't have a
big admixture of "slavic" genetic markers. Also, general population features seem
local. I don't know what to think of it. The most logical explanation would be that
the domestic "illyrian" population already spoke some language that is either slavic
or related

Did the Turkish occupation of most of the Balkans have any effect (not on Latin obviously but on the Balkan languages period) do you think? Spanish shares a lot of words with Arabic, for example.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

off course it had... more in Serbian and other eastern variations than in Croatian... one of the main distincitions between Serbian and Croatian currently, in the vocabulary would be a lot more words in use with Turkish origin in Serbian.

[VetLegion]

I think until mid 19th century, the main newspaper in Zagreb was on latin as well...

I'm not talking about that. Take any mountain or river in Croatia. Does it have
a name stemming from Latin? No. If you look around Europe, place names often
date back to Romans or even earlier. The most logical thing for newcomers in
an area is to ask the locals what this plant they never saw before is called, and
then adapt the name or a version of the name. There has been no such transfer
when Slavs invaded. Why?

Only the coastal cities kept their population and Roman language. But in the interior,
not a trace remained.

[VetLegion]

Did the Turkish occupation of most of the Balkans have any effect (not on Latin obviously but on the Balkan languages period) do you think? Spanish shares a lot of words with Arabic, for example.

Yep, Turkish occupation gave the local laguages lots and lots of loan words.

Turks also permutated the populations that have been stable since the late Roman
times. They made the Balkans the huge mess that it is today.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Siscia = Sisak
Senia = Senj (Ok on the coast, but a "very" croatian city historically)...
On the coast - Pag, Pula, Split, Zadar I think all this just from the top of my head...
most of the places on the coast are of latin or earlier Illyrian origin...
For rivers - Una - I think it is latin, and historically this was Croatian land, perhaps Sava as well, but I think it is definitely not the case that when there was a latin name that Slavs just gave it another... quite a lot remains...

[OneFootInTheGrave]

in the meantime, found a good map from Roman times

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ac/Roman_provinces_of_Illyricum%2C_Macedonia%2C_Moesia%2C_Pannonia_and_Thracia.jpg

and most of the names remain, infact all of the river names are Latin accross the area

Sava (Sasvus), Kupa (Colapis), Drava (Dravus), Tisa, Vrbas, Una, Tisa, Dunav... I think a few smaller ones changed names... btw even Bosna?!? has Latin root ( Basante)... no wander that Croatian/Bosnian/Serbian is so different from the other Slavic languages... (when you think about it a little )

[VetLegion]

I stand corrected, if the map is true. Some river names survived. BTW you counted
Tisa twice .

But certainly not all. The ones in the center of the nascent Croatian medieval state got
replaced (Telavius = Zrmanja, Titius = Krka, Tilurius = Cetina). Also, no plant names, no
animal names, no hill/mountain names...

[OneFootInTheGrave]

I doubt it, we have probably more than it appears - lavanda, I think it's latin... not much I remember... might give it a quick shot now