Ships to Gaza incident

[Dinner]

If they were defending themselves with bottles, knives and crowbars, it doesn't look like they were armed to me. Just people who were attacked and defended themselves with what they had at hand.

They stated their goal was to land illegally and the ship was located in Isreali's internationally recognized Exclusive Economic Zone so of course the Israeli government had to enforce it's laws. These were crazed fanatics who were deliberately trying to provoke hostilities. I have absolutely no pity for these people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters

[Hauldren Collider]

Oerdin++

[BeBMan]

What I don't understand is why Israel doesn't prepare better for such situations, esp. if they expected it to be a "provocation" as one politician said. Why not use non-lethal force, taser, rubber-bullets? Whatever one thinks about the guys onboard those ships, this is another PR desaster for Israel. It makes any political support for Israel more difficult, which could be what Hamas etc wanted.

[a.kitman]

agree bebro, idf comes of like a bunch of amateurs here. i thought they where supposed to be all kinds of badass.

[Az]

What I don't understand is why Israel doesn't prepare better for such situations, esp. if they expected it to be a "provocation" as one politician said. Why not use non-lethal force, taser, rubber-bullets? Whatever one thinks about the guys onboard those ships, this is another PR desaster for Israel. It makes any political support for Israel more difficult, which could be what Hamas etc wanted.

Yep... thing is that the commandos came unprepared. They actually expected very little resistance - they descended with paintball guns to stun single individuals.

lack of intelligence (heh) led to lack of preparation, led to the creation of a dangerous situation led to the use of lethal force. The troops in place acted properly in the situation.

God I am glad I am out of that organization (IDF)


"military intelligence" lol indeed.

[Wezil]

If the ships were outside of Israeli terrirorial waters then Israel had no right to board them, hence the crew had the right to defend themselves.

This.

When Somalis board boats in international waters we call it "piracy".

[Al B. Sure!]

Wezil:

But to be fair it's piracy because they steal the ships and hold them and the crew for ransom. That's why it's called piracy.

[Wezil]

When you have a violent mob of 600 people attacking a few dozen naval commandos and refusing to obey lawful orders it is no wonder the commandos felt the need to defend themselves.

Cite? Under what authority were they acting?

[Asher]

They stated their goal was to land illegally and the ship was located in Isreali's internationally recognized Exclusive Economic Zone so of course the Israeli government had to enforce it's laws.

The boarding of the ships took place more than 70 nautical miles outside Israeli territorial waters, according to IHH.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the EEZ doesn't mean their laws apply. It means they have "special rights over the exploration and use of marine resources".

[Wezil]

Wezil:

But to be fair it's piracy because they steal the ships and hold them and the crew for ransom. That's why it's called piracy.

See my following post.

Under what authority did Israel act under in international waters?

[Wezil]

I consider myself a supporter of Israel but this is just beyond the pale.

[Al B. Sure!]

I consider myself NOT a supporter of Israel but the commandos acted appropriately given the circumstances.

[Wezil]

Authority?

Can you provide an answer?

[Al B. Sure!]

It's called military discretion.

Like I said, the decision to board was questionable though.

[Wezil]

The Israelis....

This was international waters. What right did they have to board the ship?

No UN mandate, nothing.