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  • Professional Ethics

    So, I've got a dilemma.

    I finished a Masters in computational fluid dynamics not so recently. Nearly all of the real work was done (i.e. the defense) a year ago. I was originally planning on getting the PhD, but I couldn't work out the motivation for studying pattern formation in the Earth's mantle. I don't give a **** about what the mantle does, fundamentally. I couldn't make an academic career out of this. And I realized that I do give a **** about what people do, so I decided to switch fields. I would get my Masters, work for a year saving up money, and get the PhD in the new field.

    I made this decision in the Fall of 2008, right before the bottom dropped out in the economy. I made a number of mistakes in grad school, but the biggest one is that I avoided internships when industry was giving them out like candy, because supposedly I wanted to be an academic. And the field my degree is associated with (Geophysics) implies a set of skills (tomography) that I don't have any research experience in, and doesn't imply the set of skills that I do (fluid dynamics, pattern formation in nonlinear systems); also because of academia - faculty in a physics dept would be a lot harder to get than geophysics. Finding a job was a lot more difficult than I expected it to be.

    I've been tutoring and part time teaching to survive. Finances have deteriorated quite a bit. Borrowed some money from the sister. My car engine died, then I wasted money on a lemon after that, so I could really use a new one (given that I live in Houston). I need to see a dentist badly, etc.

    I got a good job offer today. It's the only company I interviewed with over the past year that I feel remotely qualified for. I'm not going to say any more about it since I really don't know how specialized what this company does, actually is. However, I already signed a paper saying I'm starting a physics PhD in the Fall, in a group ("Econophysics") that's exactly what I've been wanting to do. Using stochastic models to study economic systems, basically. And I'm pretty sure that I want to do that long term. Dream job is the federal reserve, not that I'd get something like that. But I have experience with CFD, I know I can do it, even if I'm not terribly excited about this business.

    I also told my teaching job that I'd be available (and for more hours) for the Summer. I don't feel too badly about dropping them, since the management of the program is ****ed.

    My question is basically, how unethical is it to take the money for the Summer, without being upfront about my intentions? Keeping in mind that training would probably last from now till school starts (meaning productive work would be minimal). But in the interview I never said that (and was never asked if) I'd be able to commit for any amount of time. And I'd be in a probationary period for the first three months (which I guess implies less security, as well as slightly docked salary), so it's not as if they would be committing to me.
    Last edited by Ramo; May 20, 2010, 18:22.
    "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
    -Bokonon

  • #2
    I don't know anything about this, but I find it weird because my brother just finished his MEng masters...he specialized in CFD also.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #3
      If they wouldn't hire you if they knew you planned on leaving after a few months, then I would consider that a sign that it's rather unethical to plan on leaving after a few months. Receiving pay without giving them much productive work in return is cheating them, because presumably that would be a net loss for them and a net gain for you.

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      • #4
        Yep, can't help but think that. I'm going to see if my advisor-to-be could help me delay school for a semester. It ought to be the case, since I'd be funded by the department for the first year (TAing), and there are probably plenty of folk who would take that TA. And he didn't offer funding for this Summer, so I could make the argument on subsistence grounds.
        "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
        -Bokonon

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        • #5
          What if you started the work and found that you actually liked it?
          Monkey!!!

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          • #6
            Unlikely. I did similar stuff in grad school. But I might have unrealistic ideas about job satisfaction.
            "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
            -Bokonon

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            • #7
              Ethics go out the window when you need a job/money. Take the job.
              KH FOR OWNER!
              ASHER FOR CEO!!
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              • #8
                Omar!

                I actually have a somewhat similar issue. I'm out of work until October and need something in the meantime but I wonder about disclosing that I will be quitting in October. I feel like it is wrong to not be upfront (especially as you said, depending on the job, the first few months aren't productive but are training).

                I mean, sort of like what gribbler said, if you have to ask about the ethical implications of an action, it's probably wrong. But is it any better to try to collect unemployment and sit on my ass doing nothing?

                Any other thoughts?
                "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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                • #9
                  Can you not just get a short-term contract Albie? That way there won't be an ethical issue.

                  I have no idea what you do, but in most industries in this forked economy then a short-term contract "to prove yourself" is the best you can hope for.

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                  • #10
                    Ramo, unless this job turns out to be total sh*t I'd stick with it at least until the economy has firmly shown it's improving instead of limping meekly back to health as it has. It's still entirely possible for a double-dip recession and you could find yourself wishing you'd kept this job for as long as you reasonably could. I finished my Associates of Architecture just in time for the housing market to collapse. Never got around to transferring to finish the Bach/Mast at UNLV and hell if I can find a stable job in the field here in Reno. This area was one of the worst-hit; I feel worse for all the construction workers. I really do have to wait this economy out and by then I'm probably just going to start over, move to the By Area or something and attend a better architecture program than is available in Nevada. Like I told Asher et al in another thread, I really don't know what I'm going to do in the short-term. I would hope you're in a better position than I am with this job offer you've been given.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ramo View Post
                      Yep, can't help but think that. I'm going to see if my advisor-to-be could help me delay school for a semester. It ought to be the case, since I'd be funded by the department for the first year (TAing), and there are probably plenty of folk who would take that TA. And he didn't offer funding for this Summer, so I could make the argument on subsistence grounds.
                      Question: What do you think would be their response if they decided they needed to cut costs and trimming the workforce (you) was considered an option?
                      I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                      I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                      • #12
                        duke:

                        Realistically, I'd probably have to work as a manager at a McDonalds or something but i asked in case I get an interview with something better. I'm two years removed from my BA and I have no serious work experience so anything better would've been entry-level by nature.
                        "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                        "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Theben View Post
                          Question: What do you think would be their response if they decided they needed to cut costs and trimming the workforce (you) was considered an option?

                          That isn't generally how things work in academia. They don't need to cut costs, usually (and students are very very cheap). Most won't take a student if they don't have the money for them, and often foreign students get delayed for a year or so.

                          If Ramo got accepted for the fall there is probably no real problem for it.

                          A bigger possibility would be that the prof would take some other student instead.

                          I would personally suggest getting a job at a coffee shop/etc until then.

                          JM
                          Jon Miller-
                          I AM.CANADIAN
                          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Drake Tungsten View Post
                            Ethics go out the window when you need a job/money. Take the job.
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                            • #15
                              My advisor was cool with deferring school for a semester. I get real money (actually, more of it since it would last six months) and won't have to feel guilty about taking it.

                              I ****ed up the negotiation over pay, though. Still good money, but I'm disappointed I left some on the table.
                              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                              -Bokonon

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