Australia: Nanny State again

[Jon Miller]

No, right. A product only being desired by moral deviants is insufficient reason to ban it.

If it encourages moral deviants and is only desired by moral deviants than there is a reason to ban it. We do ban sex with children for a reason.

Let's take some other examples. Does pornography showing lots of anal sex encourage anal sex? Yes. But in this case, anal sex is legal. Society hasn't decide it is deviant enough to ban it. And a lot of people (here and elsewhere) would argue that it isn't deviant.

The same with many other types of deviant sex (or sex that some find deviant).

This isn't the case with sex with children. We find it deviant enough that most people react very strongly against it. Additionally, we have it severely censored with very strong punishments. Therefore society overall finds it severely deviant (up there with torture and murder, and I do consider it a subclass of torture).

If speech encourages behavior that is banned, and is only desired by people who desire the banned behavior, then it should be banned.

I am using this to contrast with simulated murder. Yeah, violent movies might encourage violence. But many people who don't want to engage in violent behavior still enjoy violent movies.

Therefore they shouldn't be banned.

Jon

[Jon Miller]

I personally wouldn't classify children as teenagers, btw, and get out of the 'borderline' cases which have most people confused.

Roughly: Kids, treat everything serious (including graphic media depicting simulated sex with kids). Teenagers, make some things misdemeanors and maybe allow graphic media featuring simulated sex with teenagers.

JM

[giblets]

I have no idea wtf this is supposed to mean.

If child pornography that uses real children is being made, then allowing realistic simulated child pornography will make it easier to escape prosecution. If there are porn makers that would prefer to use a real child, then I think this is problematic.

Allowing films that feature realistic murder might make filmmakers that use real murders less vulnerable to prosecution, but I don't think that matters because I don't think there are filmmakers that would use a real murder instead of a simulated one.

[MikeH]

Conversely, allowing them to simulate it legally might prevent them making the real thing on the black market.

[KrazyHorse]

If child pornography that uses real children is being made, then allowing realistic simulated child pornography will make it easier to escape prosecution. If there are porn makers that would prefer to use a real child, then I think this is problematic.

Allowing films that feature realistic murder might make filmmakers that use real murders less vulnerable to prosecution, but I don't think that matters because I don't think there are filmmakers that would use a real murder instead of a simulated one.

There are most certainly cases of people filming and distributing videos of murders.

[giblets]

There are most certainly cases of people filming and distributing videos of murders.

Okay, you have a point then. If simulated child abuse isn't any different from simulated murder then maybe it doesn't need to be illegal.

[Jon Miller]

You ignore my point that what is found in pornography definitely changes peoples sexual habits.

JM

[Hauldren Collider]

KrazyHorse is making the point that I forgot to make earlier...thank you

I still stand by my slippery slope argument because while the government is capable of being in the middle on many issues, it has repeatedly demonstrated its inability to do so for this one and related issues.

[Hauldren Collider]

You ignore my point that what is found in pornography definitely changes peoples sexual habits.

JM

So we should not have gay people in movies because that encourages people to be gay, those sexual deviants

[Asher]

I actually have a problem with 'token gay characters' in movies/TV shows. **** like Will & Grace also piss me off.

Rarely is a person in TV shows or hollywood movies just a regular person who happens to be gay.

We're not all faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabulous or self-hating emos.

[giblets]

Kind of shows a lack of creativity on the part of the writers, when they have to resort to stereotypes.

[Jon Miller]

So we should not have gay people in movies because that encourages people to be gay, those sexual deviants

Gay is legal, the majority of people don't think it is sexual deviance, and even many of those who do think it is sexual deviance think it should be legal.

If you are going to argue that gay sex wasn't really sexual deviance so sex with children isn't, then I will say that all sex that isn't missionary in the dark with a man and his wife should be illegal.

Sorry, but some things are clearly and objectively deviant and wrong.

JM

[Hauldren Collider]

Look back 50 years JM. ****ing hell, look at today. Are you blind?

[Jon Miller]

No.

Are you?

JM

[Jon Miller]

If sex with kids stops being deviant I am joining the Iranian people in condemning the nation and moving away.

JM