Why Do Western Nations Nerf Their Military Responses?

[Ecofarm]

The elected government has a contract with us, at their request. They decide when we leave.

Laugh all you want, but Iraq is now a democracy instead of a medieval dictatorship. Our relationship with them is now one of support. Things have changed alot in less than 10 years.

[Wezil]

We're laughing at your statement which is wrong on every count.

I'm pretty sure Saddam was not democratically elected and he sure as **** didn't invite you in. As to whether you will leave when your "US approved" Iraqi government asks? Probably, since they won't ask until you tell them.

[Ecofarm]

I am talking about our presence in Iraq NOW.

You know, the contract we have with an elected government.

The one Obama negotiated recently.

The one that allows them to decide when we leave.


*****.

[Wezil]

How do you invite someone in who is already in?

Did you leave and come back? What did I miss?

[Wezil]

*****.

Quit projecting.

[Ecofarm]

You missed the change in relations between Iraq and the rest of the world in the past few years. It's ok, just keep studying the "Bush is evil" stuff and pay no attention as Iraq moves bravely forward into the 20th century (something they would never have done under Saddam - executed by his own people after a trial).

[Wezil]

You are hoot.

[Ecofarm]

You think the US controls the Iraqi government? You think we've rigged all the various elections that never took place before?


There's a reason the Iraqi goverment wants us there - because were are helping them to build a stable democracy. We are building schools, hospitals and democratic infrastructure. We are training soldiers and policemen. We are improving their technology. We are providing security against totalitarian extremists. We are in trade relations with them and our own hope lay in their courage. They negotiate our contract of assistance. If they requested us to leave, we could end the spending tomorrow and walk away with a clean conscience.

Iraq is no longer in violation of 17 Chapter 7 UNSCRs. Iraq is no longer a place of genocide. Iraq is no longer a global pariah.


Things have changed alot in a few years, try to keep up.

[Heraclitus]

People who live in Balkan houses should not throw stones at unfixable tribalism.

When did I claim the Blakans are fixable?

In any case Slovenia is the sneaky little country that got away from the mess with a 10 day war instead of years of instability.

[Wezil]

It's not an anti-Bush thing Eco. I'm just as critical of Obama with his Afghan policy. Elok won the thread already with his comments. It's about US foreign policy, not Bush or Obama.

You think the US controls the Iraqi government? You think we've rigged all the various elections that never took place before?

Democracy is about far more than elections. Again, refer to Elok's post. He said it well.

There's a reason the Iraqi govermnt want us there - because were are helping them to build a stable democracy. They negotiate our contract of assistance. If they requested us to leave, we could end the spending tomorrow and walk away with a clean conscience.

Don't you think there is an element of self-interest involved? Like Karzai, they would face some serious problems from their own citizens were US troops to leave.


edit - I won't respond to your DanS. If you want to correct typo's go ahead but quit adding additional comments. It's annoying as ****.

[Ecofarm]

Elok's comments were BS.

1. Some people in Iraq (victims of genocide) DID ask for our help. In fact, Saddam "represented" a minority while slaughtering everyone else. Let's not pretend his government represented the will of the majority of the people - that's just ignorant. His people put him to death after trial.

2. Everyone wants a say in their authority and everyone wants self-determination. Don't be stupid. The argument of "but they don't want to be free" didn't hold water in the American Civil War and it still doesn't hold water today.

3. Things in Iraq have gotten amazingly better is a very short period of time.

[Wezil]

I'll let Elok refute what you call BS (if he chooses).


I bet you could find "some" people in many countries that would ask for a foreign invasion. There's probably even some in the US.

[Ecofarm]

He killed 200000 Kurds [late 80s] and 50000 Marsh Arabs [mid 90s] in a couple years, each.


Cries of help from genocide victims > sovereignty of genocidal dictator

No further invitation was required.

[Wezil]

Then why be so selective?

[Ecofarm]

Priorities. Ever heard of them? They help to organize things so that someone can get the most done.


We need to go to places that can self-finance the nation building to some extent. We don't want to "spend it all in one place".

Also, no one was committing genocide like Saddam. Not even close (unless you include famines in nK, which is probably fair). Maybe nK needed our help more, but we'd really go broke trying to nation build there. They have no resources and no democratic infrastructure (at least Saddam had sham elections so that some tradition and institution existed). nK is so backwards, I'm not sure a unified and determined UN effort could nation build there (even merely getting them to where Iraq is now) in less than two generations.


What, did you think we can just do everything at once? What fkn world do you live in?