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Arizona Senate Bill 1070

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  • These people who are protesting being asked for identification by Arizona cops—have they been anywhere lately, like out of the country? Like Mexico, or Canada, or India, or Italy, or Tanzania, or Singapore, or Britain—places where people in uniforms have routinely demanded my papers? Chicago White Sox Manager Ozzie Guillen is offended (“as a Latin American”) by the Arizona law and recently claimed that all illegal immigrants are “workaholics.” Has he been back to the land of his birth lately, Venezuela, and expected not to be asked for his papers? Ozzie, tell the police in Ocumare del Tuy, “I’m a Latin American,” and see if that will end the interrogation. And spare a thought for the policeman two days ago who was gunned down in the desert by a workaholic drug dealer.

    The request for papers is not just a line in Casablanca. I have been hearing the question my whole traveling life. I had an Alien Registration Card in Britain and got occasional visits from the police at my home, to make sure I was behaving myself. Seventeen years in Britain as an alien: papers. Six years in Africa: “Where are your papers, bwana?” Three years in Singapore: another alien identity card and immense red tape in that fussy, litigious bureaucracy.

    As for the U.S., it is annoying, but understandable, especially in a country with 12 million illegal immigrants using the public services. “Who are you?” is a routine question: The necessity to identify yourself to authority is something that happens every day. You present a credit card at the supermarket and they want to see your license to make sure you’re not a grafter. All over the place, renting a car, at the bank: “I’ll need to see two forms of ID.”

    In Toronto last year I had to show my passport to check into my hotel. You can’t check into any hotel in India or China or buy certain railway tickets there without showing your passport and having all your details recorded. So why should an Indian or a Chinese in the U.S. be surprised if he or she is stopped for speeding by a policeman in Flagstaff and asked for a proof of residence?



    Arizona, Show Your Papers? So What!


    Amen. I had to show my alien registration card to the police in Japan a couple times (and they don't even need a good reason to ask, like the police in Arizona will). It wasn't a big deal.
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    • nazis
      Unbelievable!

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      • "Like Mexico, or Canada, or India, or Italy, or Tanzania, or Singapore, or Britain—places where people in uniforms have routinely demanded my papers?"




        The only papers routinely demanded here are rolling papers.
        "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
        "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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        • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten View Post
          Like [...] Canada [...] places where people in uniforms have routinely demanded my papers?

          [...]

          In Toronto last year I had to show my passport to check into my hotel.
          Both of these statements make me doubt the truthfulness of the rest of the article.
          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
          Stadtluft Macht Frei
          Killing it is the new killing it
          Ultima Ratio Regum

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          • How would you know what it's like for a foreigner visiting Canada?
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            • Immigrants are destroying America.

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              • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten View Post
                How would you know what it's like for a foreigner visiting Canada?
                a) I have no idea how you think anybody would know this guy was a foreigner. I'm assuming he's American, and probably white American (?)

                b) If it's due to flashing an American ID, I certainly know "what it's like". I don't carry around my ****ing passport when I'm up there, and the only ID I currently have is from the States

                c) Are you seriously going to argue this point? The guy is making **** up. That's obvious. The only reason a hotel would ask him for a passport is if he didn't have some other valid form of ID. As far as the Gestapo asking to see his papers:
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

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                • How often do hotels ask for ID?

                  I can't remember having to show ID to get a room.
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                  • Are you seriously going to argue this point?



                    Yes.

                    The guy is making **** up.



                    What evidence do you have? What possible motive does Theroux have to make up an anecdote about having to show his passport at a hotel in Toronto? The absence of that anecdote wouldn't have affected his article in the slightest.

                    The only reason a hotel would ask him for a passport is if he didn't have some other valid form of ID.



                    The fact that people are routinely asked for ID while overseas is exactly Theroux's point. No one cares that it happens in Canada, the UK or Italy, but it's apparently fascist when it happens in Arizona.
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                    • A credit card will usually suffice.
                      "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                      "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                      • If you check in with a credit card then they're usually fine (but will often require ID for the credit card). If you attempt to pay cash then they want some assurance that you aren't going to trash the room, so they collect ID.
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment


                        • It's been a while since I've seen a place that will even accept cash.
                          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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                          • Originally posted by Drake Tungsten View Post
                            Are you seriously going to argue this point?



                            Yes.

                            The guy is making **** up.



                            What evidence do you have? What possible motive does Theroux have to make up an anecdote about having to show a passport at a hotel in Toronto? The absence of that anecdote wouldn't have affected his article in the slightest.
                            What evidence do I have? Living in the country for 23 years, and visiting 3-4 dozen times with only American ID on me (except at border).

                            How about the fact that until the US decided to change things, you could enter Canada as an American simply by attesting to the fact that you were a US citizen? Why the **** would our immigration enforcement within our borders be more stringent than at our borders?

                            Hotels aren't ****ing immigration enforcement centers, Drake. They don't have a mandate to collect information on sneaky foreigners. As stated previously, the only reason he'd ever be asked for a passport is if he had no other reasonable form of ID (or, usually, a credit card). A US driver's license would be more than enough.

                            Dude, you need a reality check here. I get asked for ID much more often in the US than I do in Canada (even excluding bars). I drive a car with US plates in Canada, on a US driver's license. I got a traffic warning in Montreal, and the cop didn't even run my license (he just looked at it and told me to drive more carefully).

                            The guy is just plain lying.
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

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                            • So here are the facts:

                              1. The new Arizona law creates a state penalty to mirror what already is a federal crime. Despite the most vile and hate-filled portrayals of proponents of the law as "Nazis," actions that have been condemned nationally by the Anti-Defamation League, it is ALREADY a federal requirement for legal aliens in the United States to carry their green card or other immigration document. The new Arizona law enforces what has been a federal crime since before World War II. As anyone who has traveled abroad knows, other nations have similar laws.

                              2. Contrary to many of the horror stories being spread -- President Obama suggested families risk being pulled over while going out for ice cream -- law enforcement cannot randomly ask anyone about their immigration status. Much like enforcement of seat belt laws in many states, under SB 1070 there must first be reasonable suspicion that you are breaking some OTHER non-immigration law before an officer can ask a person about their legal status. Only then, after law enforcement officers have a "reasonable suspicion" that another law has been broken, can they inquire about immigration status -- but ONLY if that individual's behavior provides "reasonable suspicion" that the person is here illegally.

                              "Reasonable suspicion" is a well-understood concept that has been thoroughly vetted through numerous federal court cases. Many have asked: What is reasonable suspicion? Is it race, skin color or national origin? No! Racial profiling is prohibited in the new law. Examples of reasonable suspicion include: a person running away when approached by law enforcement officers, or a car failing to stop when the police turn on their lights and siren.

                              3. Arizona's local law enforcement officers, who already reflect the great diversity of culture in our state, are going to be trained to enforce the new immigration law in a constitutional manner. It is shameful and presumptive for opponents to question the good will and the competence of Arizona's law enforcement personnel. The specter that is raised of rogue, racist police harassing people is insulting to those in Arizona who risk their lives in the name of law enforcement every day.



                              Taking the All-Star Game out of Phoenix would be 'the wrong play.' In an ESPN.com exclusive, Arizona's governor responds to calls for sports boycotts over her state's immigration law.


                              This is like the least objectionable law ever.
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                              • What evidence do I have? Living in the country for 23 years, and visiting 3-4 dozen times with only American ID on me (except at border).



                                I'm sure you stay at hotels a lot when you go back home.

                                Hotels aren't ****ing immigration enforcement centers, Drake. They don't have a mandate to collect information on sneaky foreigners.



                                Theroux didn't say Canadian hotels had "a mandate to collect information on sneaky foreigners", you disingenuous moron; he only said that he had to show his passport to check into a hotel in Toronto. There's no evidence that he's lying about that and no discernible motive for him to lie about it.

                                As stated previously, the only reason he'd ever be asked for a passport is if he had no other reasonable form of ID (or, usually, a credit card). A US driver's license would be more than enough.



                                Why does it matter that he had to show a passport rather than a driver's license? Both are a form of ID, and being asked for either at a Canadian hotel would support Theroux's point that being asked to produce ID is a common occurrence in any number of countries around the world.

                                Dude, you need a reality check here. I get asked for ID much more often in the US than I do in Canada (even excluding bars).



                                I never claimed that being asked to produce ID is a more common occurrence in Canada than it is in the United States. It's common in both countries, as well as many other civilized nations. It's not a big deal, which is why the outcry over Arizona's immigration law is so ****ing stupid.
                                Last edited by Drake Tungsten; May 5, 2010, 22:37.
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