GroBdeutschland

[Wernazuma III]

Indeed. Austria provided more SS agents then Germany despite the fact that Germany's population was several times Austria's.

Not true. Even the relative density of SS officers in Austria was even lower than in Germans. The more depressive number is the density of Austrian KZ chief-commanders and other executive key posts (the political elite was already occupied, so eager Austrian Nazis tried their fortune in the SS etc..

Here a statistic of persons working for the KZ system by their origin. These new number show a higher relative number of Austrians than previous estimations which had only 4,5%. The new study show a percentage of 6% Austrians + 3,7% of possible Austrian background.


Compared to the overall populations, that means a lower relative number:


Please note that this study was conducted by the Documentary Centre of Austrian Resistance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Documen...ian_Resistence

[Dinner]

Of course, Austria-Hungary was a multiethnic empire with all the problems of a multiethnic empire but it would seem the Germans and the Hungarians were both minorities who worked together to subjugate the others.

[Dinner]

Well Austrians didn't exactly mind keeping minority nationalities in their half of the empire under their boot.

They did have an official policy of "germanization". That is the slavic peoples in their empire were supposed to be educated to think and act like Germans so that there would be fewer internal divisions with in the empire.

[Wernazuma III]

Of course, Austria-Hungary was a multiethnic empire with all the problems of a multiethnic empire but it would seem the Germans and the Hungarians were both minorities who worked together to subjugate the others.

In a nutshell, yes. Although both were the relative majorities.

They did have an official policy of "germanization". That is the slavic peoples in their empire were supposed to be educated to think and act like Germans so that there would be fewer internal divisions with in the empire.

Not really. At least I know of no imperial language program or school indoctrination which would support this view. AFAIK, regular schools had all kinds of teaching language, as they wished. German was used as "commando language" though. Every soldier had to learn ~100 words, which seems pretty reasonable. Officers had to learn German in the cadet schools, but also were required to learn the "regiment language" of their regiment (which was that of the majority of the soldiers in it) within some time.


Relevant Germanization only happened late, and not as a doctrine or consequent politics. Even less so by the governments, which often saw their intentions to solve national tensions frustrated by nationalist parlamentarians (oh, the fruits of a constitutional monarchy).
The problem was most virulent in Bohemia, a strong political force, but where the German minority could count on national support to prevent Czech to become the sole official language. The Czechs in turn were influential enough as not to allow German to become it.
Stupid German nationals in the Cisleithanian (Austrian part) parliament blocked attempts of the government which wanted to decrete equality of both languages for Bohemia. Not counting with a majority in the parliament (as a minority), the frustrated Czechs flocked to the "Young Czechs", an equally repugnant nationalist force, but the attraction to it can be somehow understood.

In other areas, the politics of language wer much less confrontational because the other ethnicities were not perceived as a threat. Polish Galicia had Polish as official language all through to the end. In Morovia, communes could decide for their official language and wherever 20% of a population spoke one language, they were entitled to use it at offices.

Not finding a consensual solution with the Czechs and southern Slavs in the same way as had happened with Hungary, creating a pool of national frustrations in the two parliaments, was very destructive.

[Drake Tungsten]

Indeed. Austria provided more SS agents then Germany despite the fact that Germany's population was several times Austria's.

That's not a surprise. The southern Germans (Austrians, Bavarians) have always been more authoritarian and racist than their northern brethren.

[Wernazuma III]

That's not a surprise. The southern Germans (Austrians, Bavarians) have always been more authoritarian and racist than their northern brethren.

Again, Drake's completely on the wrong track, as always.

[Drake Tungsten]

Hitler = Austrian

Nazi Party = Started in Bavaria.

Yeah, I'm on the wrong track.

[Japher]

German = Nazi

I don't really care if that's right or wrong, but that's just how it is.

[Wernazuma III]

Hitler = Austrian

Nazi Party = Started in Bavaria.

Yeah, I'm on the wrong track.

You are when it comes to your lump summing from gut feeling. I answered to Oerdin's assumption about SS membership by prividing statistics and you fail to acknwledge anything that does not agree with your stupid prejudiced view.

Clearly, Austrians and Bavarians were more authoritarian than Prussians.

Election results 1933 (as already posted sometime here on the forum): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:NSDAP_Wahl_1933.png

As yu can see, Nazi support was highest in Prussia, and lower along the Rhine and in Bavaria.
Which doesn't excuse Bavarians, Rhinelanders or Austrians, but you should keep claims tied to facts - which you seemingly can't.
So, just ignore them if you wish, I'm not taking your idiotic baits anymore.

[Drake Tungsten]

Clearly, Austrians and Bavarians were more authoritarian than Prussians.

The Prussians at least limited their authoritarian governments to controlling other Germans. The ****ing Austrians kept their authoritarian boot on half the peoples of Eastern Europe...

[Ecthy]

First half of this thread = pure comedy.

[Drake Tungsten]

Oerdin

[Ecthy]

Absofvckinglutely.

[Ecthy]

I mean let's consider Nazi policy, may there not have been some justification to it if it had been Wilsonian and not murderous?

[Ecthy]

Or, to be more to the point: how much of Nazi policy was justified if we take the Wilsonian parts of it and omit the mass murder for a minute?