Western Civilization had a nervous breakdown in 1914

[BeBMan]

If we look at this as strong indication, that basically the deepest revulsion that is caused by war is a stagnation, a conflict that is prolonged and doesn't seem to be moving anywhere. If there is dynamism, the populace will most likely support it: whether the heroism of war is in a defensive or offensive posture it doesn't matter - in the eye of the public the futility of WWI in europe was precisely the lack of change, by a murderous standstill in which thousands laid their lives daily, while no change was achieved.

Yeah, the combination of high losses and little or no gain certainly. And later in the Reich also the experience of bad supply and hunger due to the naval blockade. These experiences caused still fears at the outbreak of WWII in Germany. There was not much of a comparable huzzah-mood in Sep 39 because there were a lot of concerns about getting more of the same again. It changed then mainly due to the early 'Blitzkrieg' victories that were gained quickly, with relatively low losses, accompanied by lotsa propaganda, while at the same time the war so far (until the attack on the USSR and more serious Allied bombing efforts) didn't have much of an impact for the daily rountine of ordinary people at home.

[Elok]

You can have more than one nervous breakdown.

I once heard of someone who had nineteen.

[Lancer]

I once had an untouched coloring book for boys from the beginning of the 20th century. It had belonged to my grandmother, evidently it was meant to be given to her brother, who died. What was interesting about the book was that it wasn't horses, or toys, or cars or planes, it was soldiers, especially white European soldiers. German soldiers goose-stepping in their spiked helmets, British soldiers standing guard in India, French soldiers fighting swarthy Ayrabs, American soldiers (also in spiked helmets) marching along newly acquired Phillipines streets, Russian soldiers guarding the Hermitage, Italian soldiers, Spanish soldiers, Austrian soldiers, Greek soldiers, Dutch soldiers, etc, etc. The only non-European representative was the Japanese soldier, depicted marching along the Chinese countryside. Each happy soldier was depicted in his waiting to be colored accurately detailed full dress uniform.
The book expressed a widely held value of the time, a deeply held nationalistic chauvinism, an obsession with things military, an actual longing for the glory of war. WW1 smashed all those ideals. War ceased to be glorious, soldiers weren't dashing, they were victims and the ones who came back were often mere shadows of their former selves.
I think the real secret to Nazi Germany's success in the first 2 years of war was that they managed to recuperate from the war revulsion that had gripped Europe after WW1. In 1939, 1940, and 1941 their opponents just didn't have the heart to make the sacrifices needed to contain the Nazis, but the Nazis were willing to do whatever it took to win.

Thank you Dr Strangelove.

[Dinner]

The seeds were sown on the 31st of October, 1517 - all that came later was the logical unfolding.

Please stop talking about things you know nothing about. Protestant Germany fought Protestant Britain because of the protestant reformation!!!!! So how does Orthodoxed Russia and Muslim Turkey fit in to your little imaginary plan? Or the fact the Catholic Austria-Hungary allied with Protestant Germany? WW1 had nothing to do with the Protestant reformation and instead had everything to do with nationalism and imperial ambitions.

[Riesstiu IV]

I think we can all agree that the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand sparked all subsequent events in the 20th century. Balkanoids should be held responsible for both WWI, WWII, fall of Czarist Russia, the rise of the Soviet Union, the subsequent decline of European preeminence as Imperial Powers, and the Cold War. None of this would have happened if Balkanoids knew their place.

People of the Balkans have this amazing ability of getting neighboring and international powers involved in their local ****fits. They should be driven out of Europe and replaced by more civilized people like Greeks, Austrians, and Hungarians.

[Dinner]

We can send the Turks to Arabia and send the Balkanites to Turkey.

[aneeshm]

aneeshm? Try depicting WW1 as a holy war and I will still be laughing at you many years from now.

Thanks for completely missing the point.

EDIT: It appears that the above misinterpretation is not confined to one poster alone, so I shall clarify.

No, WW1 was nothing at all like a holy war, nor did it have any religious motivations. However, the Protestant Reformation had far-reaching effects, and one of them was the destabilisation, through a myriad small factors, of the Westphalian System; it was this system's collapse, after all, which made the war so deadly, and completely shattered the old world.

[BeBMan]

No, WW1 was nothing at all like a holy war, nor did it have any religious motivations. However, the Protestant Reformation had far-reaching effects, and one of them was the destabilisation, through a myriad small factors, of the Westphalian System; it was this system's collapse, after all, which made the war so deadly, and completely shattered the old world.

What are you referring too? The only Westphalian System I know is the one resulting from the Thirty Years War which ended 1648.

[aneeshm]

What are you referring too? The only Westphalian System I know is the one resulting from the Thirty Years War which ended 1648.

Correct. That system's principles laid down the basis of international relations from that time on. The system, however, broke down in practice with WW1; you'll note that even the pretence of abiding by any of its principles was abandoned during and after the war.

[BeBMan]

Yes, with WWI, but the reformation has nothing to do with this breakdown. The religious turmoil in early modern Europe pre 1700 had of course to do with reformation and counter-reformation, but esp. the Treaty of Westphalia and the resulting system was one of the major points in settling a lot of those conflicts.

[Sir Og]

I think we can all agree that the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand sparked all subsequent events in the 20th century. Balkanoids should be held responsible for both WWI, WWII, fall of Czarist Russia, the rise of the Soviet Union, the subsequent decline of European preeminence as Imperial Powers, and the Cold War. None of this would have happened if Balkanoids knew their place.

People of the Balkans have this amazing ability of getting neighboring and international powers involved in their local ****fits. They should be driven out of Europe and replaced by more civilized people like Greeks, Austrians, and Hungarians.

Actually it's the other way around. International powers feel a compelling need to stir up **** in the Balkans. That is the root of all the problems in the region.

[Dauphin]

So an event that predated the Westphalian system by over 100 years was the cause of its destabilisation after over 250 years of stability?

Talk about slow burn.

[Heresson]

I think we can all agree that the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand sparked all subsequent events in the 20th century. Balkanoids should be held responsible for both WWI, WWII, fall of Czarist Russia, the rise of the Soviet Union, the subsequent decline of European preeminence as Imperial Powers, and the Cold War. None of this would have happened if Balkanoids knew their place.

People of the Balkans have this amazing ability of getting neighboring and international powers involved in their local ****fits. They should be driven out of Europe and replaced by more civilized people like Greeks, Austrians, and Hungarians.

the assassination was just an excuse for Germany and A-H to start the war. They would have found another, sooner or later.

[MRT144]

Thanks for completely missing the point.

EDIT: It appears that the above misinterpretation is not confined to one poster alone, so I shall clarify.

No, WW1 was nothing at all like a holy war, nor did it have any religious motivations. However, the Protestant Reformation had far-reaching effects, and one of them was the destabilisation, through a myriad small factors, of the Westphalian System; it was this system's collapse, after all, which made the war so deadly, and completely shattered the old world.

It started with Aryans. Dirty ****ing Aryans.

[Ecthy]

Once we're at this issue, let's consider two neat hypotheses which supposedly are quite contrary to one another.

Apparently Germany was on a steady economic rise and had superceded the UK on many fields, not yet on others, such as the imperial one. Going from there follow the two hypotheses, I'd like to see what you make of them.

1. Germany was on a peaceful rise and was achieving dominance one way or another. The UK/ the Entente powers needed the war to stop Germany and therefore provoked the hostilities.

2. Germany was on a rise but a rigid international power system wouldn't let her take her place. Instead, Germany got no chance to aquire valuable colonies similar in size to those of France or the UK, and the British navy was a status quo power that accepted no rival. Thus, Germany needed the war to achieve the dominance she thought she deserved.