USA continues to plead for Canada's help. Please. Anything.

[Dinner]

C'mon Harper. Quit being a douche and gimme a hand will ya? I've got lots of goodies in my stash.

I like Drake's new DL. To bad the mods stopped banning people for DLs though.

[Drake Tungsten]

His CIA connections are neither here nor there as to his legitimacy but certainly speak to why he is western approved.

I suppose you think the West would also approve of a Hekmatyar government. After all, he had much closer and longer ties to the CIA than Karzai ever did...

the mods stopped banning people for DLs

Now free NGR!

[Wezil]

So what are these "basic facts" Drake?

That Karzai was "elected"? I pointed out why it is meaningless with facts to which you've wandered off into terrotory irrelevant to the question at hand.

Defend Karzai's legitimacy.

[Drake Tungsten]

So what are these "basic facts" Drake?

I suggest you start by learning what a loya jirga is. You can then move on to learning the recent history of the region; I'd recommend Ghost Wars as a good starting place. You can read all about Karzai and Pashtun opposition to the Taliban in there.

[Wezil]

*sigh*

Alright Drake. Thanks for coming out.

[Drake Tungsten]

I offer you good advice on how to better educate yourself and you respond with sarcasm? I'd prefer it if you just said "thank you" and went on your way...

[Dinner]

I'm waiting to hear which foreign troops fought against the Taliban government (obviously unsuccessfully since it wasn't until our arrival that they were ousted) and how this means Karzai with his massive foreign troop support to maintain him in government is legitimate.

I'm not sure if I consider him to still be legitimate but originally he was proclaimed by a Loyola Jyrga and then he won an election which was nearly universally declared to be clean. The last election though supposedly had wide spread fraud by numerous parties though it seems the government's fraud beat out the fraud from the various warlords.

Still, we should be pumping in billions so that Afghanistan has a 1million man army just like we did for South Vietnam and so far we've only offered peanuts and virtually no hardware. Infantry isn't going to cut it as they're going to need heavy artillery, armored vehicles, helicopters, and ground attack aircraft and what is more since there is no tax base foreigners are going to have to pay to maintain that army. If we do that the government will likely be able to take over the whole country but not end the insurgency; to end the insurgency Afghanistan is going to need lots and lots of development aid. The whole country only has something like 300 miles of paved roads so road building and paving will be needed while power plants, reservoirs, and delivery systems for both water and electricity will also be needed in order to show people we mean business in improving their quality of life. Lastly, the economy is virtually entirely agricultural so we need a massive irrigation program running hundreds of irrigation aqueducts from the new reservoirs to farm land.

That's what it will take to start getting a handle on the situation, in my mind, and none of it can be accomplished without security so that's why the foreign troops are going to be needed for another 10 years. The problem is we've wasted the last 10 years as we haven't completed a single large project like the ones I listed to date. After 10 years the Afghan National Army only has around 5000 men so they most certainly haven't gotten the money or attention they need and so far Obama is doing anything dramatic to radically increase those numbers. Anything less then 500,000 won't cut it.

[Drake Tungsten]

a Loyola Jyrga

I love you, Oerdin. I may bag on you a lot, but you're much more lovable than most of the retards around here.

[Dinner]

The spell checker didn't have it.

[Barack Obama]

I like Drake's new DL. To bad the mods stopped banning people for DLs though.

Here's a G for some walking around money. Since you're in California buy yourself a hotdog at the corner stand. Nan says they are the best ever.

[Felch]

He is also western educated and (probably) past CIA.

I've played rugby with the guy's nephew, and I heard third-hand that the family owns restaurants in the Baltimore area or something. I doubt he's a CIA alumnus.

[Drake Tungsten]

Karzai does have past affiliations with the CIA, but his contact with the CIA was much shorter and less involved than those of many other Afghan leaders.

[KrazyHorse]

I ate at the brother's restaurant I think. Called helmand

[Wezil]

I offer you good advice on how to better educate yourself and you respond with sarcasm? I'd prefer it if you just said "thank you" and went on your way...

No Drake. You laid down a pre-condition before I can have the honour of a discussion with you. Quite frankly you demonstrated you are not worth the time. I had better things to do last night than continue to try to get you to make an argument.

[Wezil]

The uncomfortable question about Karzai's legitimacy is one that people like Drake don't like to have to address.

The fact is that Karzai is 10 years in office, with massive international support and still unable to field an army strong enough to handle the insurgents (his own citizens - not foreign soldiers).

Either the "west" are the absolute worst teachers or the Afghans are the absolute worst students (non-Pashtun Afghans of course since the Pashtun are apparently the only Afghans capable of fighting...)