Explosions in Moscow: 2 subway explosions, 25+ dead

[Wezil]

DanS - The "West" supported Chechnya insurgents (morally if not in other ways) prior to 9/11. 9/11 was a godsend for Russia as they were suddenly given free rein to kill Chechens with impunity - even better, with our encouragement.

This logic always fails. We can fight house to house for blocks on end against fortified defenders leveling whole neighborhoods, or we can put a few bombs on a single building. The "lets get on the ground!" line rarely makes sense.

You don't go house to house because your lives are more important than theirs (the fig leaf from earlier). Better to kill some "enemy" civilians than lose a few of your soldiers.

That, of course, is not what they did in Grozy. It wasn't terrorism though, just a war crime.

If I were a resident of Grozny when the Russians showed up and leveled the place I'd probably still be nursing a grudge as well. "Terrorism" vs. "war crime"? Sure, I appreciate a debate could be had on the terminology but when you are bombed in a subway in Moscow or bombed while you attend a wedding in Afghanistan (or buried in Grozny), you are still an innocent victim.

[Wezil]

Serb - Sorry, no response as I consider you to be in Ben territory. You once seriously argued Canadian kids grow up dreaming of playing professional hockey in Russia. I haven't taken you seriously since.

[Patroklos]

You don't go house to house because your lives are more important than theirs (the fig leaf from earlier). Better to kill some "enemy" civilians than lose a few of your soldiers.

You are not understanding what I am saying. If all you want to do is take out an individual target, what do you think kills more people: fighting house to house over hours and days through blocks upon blocks of inhabited buildings destroying entire neighborhoods? Or destroying a single target with a smart bomb?

There are instances where sending in troops may be less damaging, but this is not the case when we are talking about fortified urban that are still inhabited, as for example Gaza. If you are actually trying to passify an urban area, then you have no choice but to send the troops in, there is no clean way do go about that sort of work.

Again, this does not apply to Grozny, but this "send in the troops" because it will kill less civilians default answer continues to pop up.

If I were a resident of Grozny when the Russians showed up and leveled the place I'd probably still be nursing a grudge as well. "Terrorism" vs. "war crime"? Sure, I appreciate a debate could be had on the terminology but when you are bombed in a subway in Moscow or bombed while you attend a wedding in Afghanistan (or buried in Grozny), you are still an innocent victim.

I'm not arguing with this.

[Wezil]

Okay Pat, I hear you.

My initial reaction was spurred in part by what I knew would be the inevitable statement given by western leaders about the acts being "cowardly". Sure enough HRC said something right on script. I don't condone terrorism in any of it's forms including subway bombings but I can sometimes see both the motivation and desperation behind it. This was one of those cases.

[germanos]

DanS - The "West" supported Chechnya insurgents (morally if not in other ways) prior to 9/11. 9/11 was a godsend for Russia as they were suddenly given free rein to kill Chechens with impunity - even better, with our encouragement.

The destruction of Grozny has nothing to do with 9/11 as it was done almost 7 years earlier. I saved an issue of my newspaper from February 1995



edit: Where did the upload feature go? I now linked to my attached image to show it in the thread, but that seems quite silly. Anyway: the attached image is thus the same as is shown here
(and yes, it looks a bit crappy as I only have an A4 scanner and the newspaper is 4x as large...)

[germanos]

And on topic: What a mother****ing waste of life. It's a shame we all risk loosing life or limb to these idiots who think they might achieve some credible goal with such monstrous acts.

[Serb]

Serb, what do you think the government's response will be?

Find the motherf*ckers and eliminate them.

[MRT144]

Serb - Sorry, no response as I consider you to be in Ben territory. You once seriously argued Canadian kids grow up dreaming of playing professional hockey in Russia. I haven't taken you seriously since.

Maybe he made a tasteless Russian Nationalist joke?

[Wezil]

The destruction of Grozny has nothing to do with 9/11 as it was done almost 7 years earlier. I saved an issue of my newspaper from February 1995

I was referring to the ongoing conflict, not Grozny specifically.

The Russians took a lot of heat for Grozny (pre-9/11) but never get chastised now.

[Serb]

If my hometown looked like Grozny did after the redecorating, I might consider Afghanistan an improvement too!

Redecorating?
This is the modern Grozny:













And this is Baghdad:

And Kabul:


AN IMPROVEMENT, MY ASS.

You know the difference between you and us? Between Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Chechnya?
a) We have a thousand times more legal reasons to engage in combat.
b) You bring only destruction and nothing else.
You know why you can't win war in Iraq and Afghanistan, while the war in Chechnya is over long time ago?
'cause you prefer to waste hundreds of billions $$$ on your army there instead of rebuilding the countries and give people jobs.
You are just a dumbasses and pathetic conquerers. Nothing else but bloody killers and robbers. Nothing has changed in your mentality and your approach to combat (kill those ragheads/untermenshes for all you care!!!) since your genocide of the Native Americans or Hiroshima and Dresden.
That's is just your nature.

Have a nice day.

p.s. in hell.

[Wezil]

Quite obviously you are completely ignorant of my position re - Iraq and Afghanistan.

Have a nice day.

p.s. in Russia

[Serb]

Serb - Sorry, no response as I consider you to be in Ben territory. You once seriously argued Canadian kids grow up dreaming of playing professional hockey in Russia. I haven't taken you seriously since.

You are hopeless idiot and liar.
FOF.

[Serb]

Quite obviously you are completely ignorant of my position re - Iraq and Afghanistan.

Have a nice day.

p.s. in Russia

But I'm quite in aware that you are and idiot.
have a nice day in your Wezilidioticverse, you terrorist sympathizer.

[Hauldren Collider]

Didn't I already point out how absurdly cherry-picked your Grozny images are? In case you need reminding...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost....&postcount=138

[Wezil]

re - Your Grozny pictures

You should stop being so nice to these people. It's obvious you are driving them mad. They have resorted to sending bombers to your subway in an effort to get you to stop already!