"Wait untill Mandela dies!"

[Kidlicious]

Oh I get it because I think South Africa isn't a safe place for turists and that a part of inter group gaps in IQ and crime rates is genetic I'm A RACIST.


Ok I get it. I suppose I should stop posting and join an angry lnych mob, the local KKK chapter or shoot my brains out for being an ugly and despicable human being right?

You're the worst kind, because you expect people to believe that you're better than the run of the mill bigot. You aren't.

[Heraclitus]

I still have no clue why it would make any difference if Mandela died or not during the WC

I sort of see him as South Africa's Tito in a sense race relations will be strained for at least some time after his death.

Racist

You're the worst kind, because you expect people to believe that you're better than the run of the mill bigot. You aren't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstr...n_Intelligence

According to the report, most experts view environmental factors as important contributors to the differences between racial or ethnic groups, though they do not rule out the possibility that there could also be genetic causes. When controlled for socioeconomic status, racial differences in IQ can be diminished, but do not disappear as would be expected if the causes were purely environmental.

IQ group differences are not really disputed. When I say that part of the difference may be genetic I'm providing a falsefiable claim, how can that be racist? Once we understand the genetics of inteligence this issue will be settled so I feel no need to aggitate for any policy untill then, I just wish for people to not confuse "should be" with "is" and not burn at the stake scientist who are merley making a valid hypothesis and trying to test it.

[Ecofarm]

IQ tests do not translate across cultural-socio-economic barriers. The foundation for your "study" is BS... you should figure that out first. Your failure to think critically about the foundations of your data has been noted - you will not be seated in the "gifted" section.

[MikeH]

You're expressing an opinion based on something that you freely admitted can't be proven either way. You didn't say that part of the difference in IQ groups MAY be genetic. I wouldn't have disputed that. You said:

and that a part of inter group gaps in IQ and crime rates is genetic

I assume you didn't really mean that from what you've since said.

The crime rate thing is arguably even less defensible than the IQ thing.

[Heraclitus]

IQ tests do not translate across cultural-socio-economic barriers. The foundation for your "study" is BS... you should figure that out first. Your failure to think critically about the foundations of your data has been noted - you will not be seated in the "gifted" section.

I'm not in the gifted section. A mean IQ of 95 (Slovenian) is nothing to be proud of, I'm pretty certain Middle Easternern nations could go that high once they become developed nations or even many African populations could under ideal conditions do the same.

North-East Asians, certain Indian populations and Askenazi Jews (they need to breed more btw) are seated in that section.

You're expressing an opinion based on something that you freely admitted can't be proven either way. You didn't say that part of the difference in IQ groups MAY be genetic. I wouldn't have disputed that. You said:

I assume you didn't really mean that from what you've since said.

The crime rate thing is arguably even less defensible than the IQ thing.

I said part of the IQ gap between blacks is in my opinion genetic Never said all or even most of it (respected scholars sometimes put half the gap to genetics). I think under ideal conditions the US Black vs. White gap would be comparable to the White vs. East Asian gap. Just a few points in other words, I find it unlikley that the survival value of inteligence was exactly equal across the diverse environemnts of this world in the last 100 000 years. I admit it may be so and I'm wrong. But assuming that's true lets take a simple tought experiment, while all else being equal two populations of the same species isolated from each other are selected for the same thing one has a stable population of 1k members the other 100k what happens after 50k years?



As to crime, yes I did mispoke. I think its possible but don't really consider it a likley explanation for the extra crime not predicted by the lower mean IQ's.

The IQ thing has nothing to do with why I don't want my friend going to South Africa, just the higher crime rates and crime being targeted on whites (since they are perceived as more lucrative targets) I only brought it up since Kid has been "arguing" with me about that on other threads and I assumed that if somone else had posted a thread with the same OP he wouldn't have provoked such a hostile response.


I see genetics as the simpler explanation as why to the children of succesfull Blacks and Whites receed to the White and Black mean instead of lets say the Asian one. I don't like epicycles.

[Ecofarm]

I'm pretty certain Middle Easternern nations could go that high once they become developed nations or even many African populations could under ideal conditions do the same.

Then it is not genetic. If you understand that, why put forth such meaningless stats in defense of racism.

[MikeH]

I said part of the IQ gap between blacks is in my opinion genetic

No, you didn't say "in my opinion" either.

[MikeH]

but if as you seem to be saying there's no conclusive data to back up a racial component to intelligence but you choose to believe it that seems to come under racism to me.

The idea that there could be genetic basis to intelligence isn't unreasonable, the idea that the myriad of different tribes/nations/civilisations in areas where people evolved a high melanin count in the skin on an ENTIRE CONTINENT with a huge range of vastly different environments would ALL not select for intelligence, does seem somewhat out there as a theory.

[Heraclitus]

Then it is not genetic. If you understand that, why put forth such meaningless stats in defense of racism.

Yes it is. The way I described it even under ideal conditions a gap of 5+ points would remain between us and the higher European & Asian outlier populations and a gap just as large would be between us (ME, Souther Europeans, some Africans) and the remaining Africans populations and Australian natives.

[Heraclitus]

Oh I get it because I think South Africa isn't a safe place for turists and that a part of inter group gaps in IQ and crime rates is genetic I'm A RACIST.

No, you didn't say "in my opinion" either.

I think=in my opinion IMO

[Heraclitus]

but if as you seem to be saying there's no conclusive data to back up a racial component to intelligence but you choose to believe it that seems to come under racism to me.

Wait wait. Read up the link I posted.

The idea that there could be genetic basis to intelligence isn't unreasonable

In fact its unreasonable to claim there isn't one. Seriously genetics is all that differentiate a dog from a chimpanzee. Are you claiming that if you spent a lot of time with the dog the dog will be a better problem solver than a chimpanzee without brain damage?

the idea that the myriad of different tribes/nations/civilisations in areas where people evolved a high melanin count in the skin on an ENTIRE CONTINENT with a huge range of vastly different environments would ALL not select for intelligence, does seem somewhat out there as a theory.

Wait. Where did I say African groups are homogenus or that non-African aren't?

Also if you don't remember we all used to be "black" since light skin only evolved recently. So I don't know why you are dragging melanin in...And Africans have more genetic diversity than any other continent! That's a nearly inescapable consequence of the out of Africa theory!

To give you a feeling about what modern genetics & biology are saying on when groups formed.



OT:
I got this from here:
http://www.gnxp.com/

Razib Khan is one cool & smart dude and always posts interesting stuff.

[onodera]

North-East Asians, certain Indian populations and Askenazi Jews (they need to breed more btw) are seated in that section.

North-East Asians? Chukchi?

[Heraclitus]

North-East Asians? Chukchi?

I mean Japanese, Koreans and most Chinese. It would have been better to say East Asians but I didn't want to include Filipino or implicitly include SouthEast Asians who have more average scores.

[St Jon]

This is racist, bigoted, bollocks Hera!

Do you choose deliberately ignore extreme poverty, lack of basic education and social exclusion for an extended period of time?

This goes for ethnic minority groups throughout the world. American Negroes hardly had it easy and it is far harder than you might believe to climb out of generations of poverty and social deprivation than you might believe.

You might as well say that Jews are the intellectual superiors of Palestinians because they have been financed by the US to dispossess them of their land and attack the tiny enclaves that they have been given with Helicopter Gunships, Tanks and well trained trained and equipped Soldiers facing poorly equipped Militias. This is not IQ it is oppression and suppression enabled by money.

India has one of the oldest and sophisticated cultures in the world but that did not save them from Britain which at the time had a far less developed culture but did have better weapons and some very fine Generals.

Philosophy is a wonderful thing but it will not save you from a bigger or better army!

[Dr Strangelove]

This is racist, bigoted, bollocks Hera!

India has one of the oldest and sophisticated cultures in the world but that did not save them from Britain which at the time had a far less developed culture but did have better weapons and some very fine Generals.

Actually Indians made a choice. It was the French, who brought Jesuits with them, or the British, who brought office clerks. They chose the office clerks.