Want to Stick it to the Teabaggers?

[Heraclitus]

End game... I believe in meritocracy too but not for civil or human rights.

What are "civil rights"? What are "human rights"? The current definition of human rights is nothing but a compromise, that all humanity dosen't even agree upon!
How do you define them, what about how other people define them? Why not leave the decision about what human rights are to people or God forbid the market? Shouldn't reality be the judge of what works best?



Is acces to information a "human right"? Inteligence agencies violate them for our own good.

Is freedom a "human right"? We deny it to those who endanger other people's "human rights". Or for his own good since he is a drug user. Or is our political oponent.

Is freedom of speech a "human right"? What about when it endangers other people's "human rights"? Who decides on when this is the case?

Sure I'm pulling an old quis custodiet ipsos custodes in my last two questions. But mull on this. What is a "human" in the longview?

[Ecofarm]

Democracy is the edge of civil and human rights.

Civil -> Human

Labor laws, environmental regulations, universal suffrage, the pursuit of happiness, life...

[Heraclitus]

Democracy is the edge of civil and human rights.

Is Democracy a value?

[Ecofarm]

No, a means or tool.

[Heraclitus]

Labor laws, environmental regulations, universal suffrage

the pursuit of happiness, life...

Can't you see how the first can destroy the second?

[Ecofarm]

What does not destroy fundamental free will? Let's operate within the context of the social, and dare I say ecologic, contract.

If you really want to play "who's a better anarchist", I'm an ex-paratrooper with extensive education and experience in food security.

[Heraclitus]

The natural world only cares about what survives. The most rational human would opt for a system that does the best it can to help humans in their current form survive (and any deviants from human norm would opt for systems that ensure that for them). Perhaps human rights are a good aproach to this, but I see massive issues with how one scales them. Human rights brought to their ultimate conclusions are inhumane and censorship in these few precious centuries before radical selfmodification takes off is worth far less than the future, I stand by this even if we need to reduce human illusions of saftey in order to facilitate true information agregation.

[Heraclitus]

No, a means or tool.

Then we agree on this? Good. Lets imagine Utopiarchy. It does everything that democracy does but better. It however violates one civil right of your choosing in a pretty blatant but not horrendus way (no violations of core human rights). It dosen't matter which civil liberty it is, lets say a hypothetical omniscient allways truthfull God tells you that playing favorites makes no difference Utopiarchy scales the violation so it levels out in how bad it seems to you.


Would you be in favour of adoptin this form of goverment?

[Heraclitus]

If you really want to play "who's a better anarchist", I'm an ex-paratrooper with extensive education and experience in food security.

I'm not. Since I'm not really an anarchist (being an anarchist is selfdefeating).

[Kidlicious]

And because it's fair and best.

How in the world does a social darwinist say what's fair? What is your basis?

[Kidlicious]

Meritocracy is BS because all tests are biased.

Obviously rejecting all test for the default is also biased. You yourself have made that clear by stating that it is "fair."

[Heraclitus]

Little secret. Lots of atheists have holdover values left from Christianity or general theism that they don't review and continue to cherish quite irattionaly since they make no sense without believing in a afterlife or a creator.

[Wezil]

"holdover values"?

Example?

[MrFun]

I went to visit Coffee Party's website and I like their statement and position concerning extreme partisanship and political corruption that reeks in both parties.

I'm still not sure I will join though. I e-mailed them, asking them if they are welcoming of gay people as they claim on their website that they are an inclusive organization of diverse people. So, I will wait and see what their response is.

[Kidlicious]

Little secret. Lots of atheists have holdover values left from Christianity or general theism that they don't review and continue to cherish quite irattionaly since they make no sense without believing in a afterlife or a creator.

So? What does that have to do with what I said?