OMG We have a martyr

[Kitschum]

If we accept that personhood begins at conception, then abortion really is comparable to the Holocaust. I'd say terrorism to try to stop the Holocaust would have been justified even in a democratic Germany.

But you don't stop the Holocaust by killing one SS officer. In a democratic Germany you stop the Holocaust by getting your fellow citizens around to your view.

[DaShi]

It is by a considerable fraction of the populace.

JM

But not by the government. And define considerable.

[Ming]

It is by a considerable fraction of the populace.

JM

I bet a FAR higher percentage of people think that blowing somebody away in this case is simply murder!

[DinoDoc]

I bet a FAR higher percentage of people think that blowing somebody away in this case is simply murder!

Given that it is the State that defines what murder is, I would have to say that you are correct.

[Ming]

It doesn't require the State to define it. I think most people can define what murder is all on their own.
And I'll bet that many people who do believe that personhood begins at conception would also agree that what the guy did was murder and wouldn't approve.

[Kuciwalker]

But that's not accepted.

Can you read? My entire point is arguendo the pro-life POV.

[DaShi]

Yes, but it only works if you're crazy.

[Kuciwalker]

But you don't stop the Holocaust by killing one SS officer. In a democratic Germany you stop the Holocaust by getting your fellow citizens around to your view.

You can stop the Holocaust by killing a lot of SS officers.

Moreover, in a democratic country that is perpetrating gross injustice and mass slaughter of a disenfranchised minority based on the will of the majority, such that there's little chance of actually changing their minds, and there are no institutions to defend the oppressed, I'd say vigilantism is pretty justified.

The best analogy would be to the antebellum South. Plenty of abolitionists would have been happy to kill a slaveowner. And if we shift the time period forward a bit, I wouldn't have had a problem with a serial killer of Klansmen either.

[Kuciwalker]

But this won't actually any stop abortions, either late term or early.

Presumably this particular doctor won't be performing any more, and it may deter other doctors of women from performing or getting abortions.

[MRT144]

You can stop the Holocaust by killing a lot of SS officers.

Moreover, in a democratic country that is perpetrating gross injustice and mass slaughter of a disenfranchised minority based on the will of the majority, such that there's little chance of actually changing their minds, and there are no institutions to defend the oppressed, I'd say vigilantism is pretty justified.

The best analogy would be to the antebellum South. Plenty of abolitionists would have been happy to kill a slaveowner. And if we shift the time period forward a bit, I wouldn't have had a problem with a serial killer of Klansmen either.

McVeigh was a freedom fighter.

[Kuciwalker]

Yes, but it only works if you're crazy.

Calling something like 20-40% of the population crazy is not a great way to convince them.

Moreover, there's no particular moral fault with believing personhood extends to early fetuses, and this guy is just taking that to its logical conclusion.

[Kuciwalker]

I bet a FAR higher percentage of people think that blowing somebody away in this case is simply murder!

People who believe that both abortion and killing abortion doctors are murder have logically inconsistent beliefs.

[MRT144]

Presumably this particular doctor won't be performing any more, and it may deter other doctors of women from performing or getting abortions.

So the ends justify the means if you think something is bad enough. What a ****ty POV.

[DaShi]

Exaclty, and the majority of pro-life people don't believe it to that extreme.

[Heresson]

Well gee... I wonder what he considers COLD BLOODED MURDER... oh that's right, MURDER!

Another classic example why religious zealots are just bad.

It's perfectly logical: he commits 1 murder to stop many murders from being commited. Now I do not approve of that, obviously, but I see logic in it.