Stalin. Worse than Hitler?

[BeBMan]

Stalin killed based on ideology, Hitler based on race. I have a bit more respect for the former than the latter.

Hitler killed basd on race because that was the core of NS ideology...

[Ecofarm]

Communist Party chiefs led a procession of largely elderly people across Red Square on the 57th anniversary of Stalin's death, laying flowers at his grave by the Kremlin wall.

The solemn visit is an annual tradition for communists steeped in nostalgia for the Soviet era. But this year, it comes as Russia's bitter debate over Stalin's legacy sharpens ahead of May 9 celebrations marking 65 years since the Nazi defeat.

For the first time in decades, Stalin's image may appear among the banners and posters that Moscow authorities put up for Victory Day, which will draw foreign leaders to Moscow as guests of the government.

City plans to set up 10 information stands describing Stalin's role in the war have deepened animus between Russians who loathe him and their compatriots who love him.

"Today ... the greatness of Stalin's era is self-evident even to his most furious haters," Russian Communist Party leader Gennady Zyuganov said after laying flowers at Stalin's grave.

"We liberated the whole world, ... we built a nuclear shield, we were the first to fly into space, and we created this (nuclear) parity that ensured stable peace for nearly 50 years."

Critics call Stalin a murderer for the millions of deaths in his forced collectivization and Gulag prison camps. They say victory in the war came despite mistakes that contributed to the devastating death toll of some 27 million Soviet citizens.

Memorial, a rights group that has documented Stalin's abuses, says it will put up its own stands.

"These V-Day posters will not only insult me but also soil the memory of my father, who died with the Second Strike Army due to Stalin's senseless and cruel orders," said Lyudmila Alexeyeva, a leading rights activist and Soviet-era dissident.

After his death in 1953, the Kremlin launched a campaign to discredit Stalin, and evidence of his abuses came pouring out during the era of openness under Mikhail Gorbachev before the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991.

But Stalin's backers have become bolder in recent years, and praise of the iron-fisted leader more prominent.

Opinion polls show many Russians view Stalin as a talented manager and a tough wartime leader who defeated a strong enemy. Stalin was voted Russia's third most important historical figure of all time in a nationwide television show.

Since former KBG officer Vladimir Putin came to power a decade ago, Russia's beleaguered liberals have accused the Kremlin of helping to burnish Stalin's image in order to justify its own increasingly tight political control.

Alexeyeva, 82, a recipient of the European Parliament's top human rights award, called the sincerity of official statements into question. "I suspect they have sympathy for Stalin," she said of Russia's leaders.

Roy Medvedev, a prominent historian and author of many books on Stalin, said he saw Stalin as a negative figure who would never be absolved but could not be ignored.

"For some, Stalin is a criminal. For others, he led the state for 30 years. The state had achievements and faults -- it had it all," he told Reuters. "Can Churchill be deleted from Britain's history? Likewise, we cannot erase Stalin from ours."

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6241M820100305

[Serb]

I guess that's a matter of perspective. There are a couple US posters here that are very Serbish.

God bless the United States of America for that.
Not every single American is a brainwashed idiot who have lost an ability to think/do simple math/not to mention to analyze.

[Serb]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6241M820100305

You guys are really hopeless. I guess now I recall why I have not appeared on this forum for an half of a year or more.
You don't even understand what kind of bullsh!t this article is. And moreover - you do want to understand. You just eat this bullsh!t, 'cause it suits just fine in your brainwashed universe. I feel pity for you.




idiots.

[N35t0r]

Hitler killed basd on race because that was the core of NS ideology...

Well, I respect 'we are superior because we think this way' a bit more than 'we are superior because we look this way'.

And Hitler did have much less time to 'work his magic' than Stalin did. Had he beat the Soviets, his would surely have been the larger headcount.

[BeBMan]

I can't decide what to respect more

[Serb]

Sad. This thread is.

[N35t0r]

I can't decide what to respect more

Oh, I certainly respect the homeless guy that sometimes sleeps in my building's entrance more than either of them

[Monk]

Actually, I think Kid is kinda onto something with his hypocrisy comment. No one should be shocked or surprised that Hitler basically did EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID he was going to do.

He certainly didn't hide the fact that he despised the Jews, but I don't think he announced to the public that he intended to kill them off indiscriminately, at least not in the thirties.
I agree with your point that people either knew or should have figured out what was happening, but the way you phrase it makes it sound like he was elected on Auschwitz as a platform.

[germanos]

I agree with your point that people either knew or should have figured out what was happening, but the way you phrase it makes it sound like he was elected on Auschwitz as a platform.

Hitler grabbed power, he never even got close to 50% of the vote.

[Monk]

Hitler grabbed power, he never even got close to 50% of the vote.

I agree his way to power wasn't democratic as such. But if you'll allow me a little nitpicking in return, 44% is sort of close to 50%.

[Elok]

Just out of curiosity, how do Stalin's defenders justify the part in the five-year plans where they seized seed grain for food and sparked a famine? I see a number of possible excuses:

A. Stalin did not order/was unaware of those actions
B. His overall record vindicates him
C. Industrialization was such a high priority that it justified the famine
D. That never happened, or was grossly exaggerated by prejudiced Western textbooks

Or it could be something else entirely that I haven't thought of. What is it?

[Elok]

I agree his way to power wasn't democratic as such. But if you'll allow me a little nitpicking in return, 44% is sort of close to 50%.

I thought the Nazis won with 33% or so just because everybody else was even lower?

[Hauldren Collider]

Wow, only 33% of the population supported exterminating Jews. I feel so much better. :P

[germanos]

I thought the Nazis won with 33% or so just because everybody else was even lower?

That was the figure I had in mind too. I had to look it up:
In both the elections of 1932 (parliament and presidential) 1/3rd of the vote IS the correct number. Only after Hitler seized power, the elections that followed in early 1933 did yield 45% for the Nazi's, but only after political opponents had been send to concentration camps following the destruction of the Reichstag . It's actually pretty amazing that Hitler STILL didn't get the absolute majority.

After the 1932 elected president (Hindenburg) died in 1934, Hitler simply named himself Führer and didn't bother with elections anymore.