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Why haven't we been back to the moon?

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  • #46
    I consider the facts you present and give them due note. Do you want a gold star for each factual error you identify?

    On a serious note, your partial rebuttal of lost information (rover/rocket plans, etc.) is interesting, but it doesn't change the fact that still a huge amount of what I would consider very important original footage and data was simply 'misplaced'. Weird!

    Also true that it is very easy to get moon rocks because there are plenty here on earth. In fact NASA took a little publicized trip to Antarctica shortly before Apollo 11. Guess what kind of rocks are very easy to find there?

    I challenged two basic presumptions at the outset. That there isn't enough money - when there obviously is. And that there's no reason to go, because only the first walk mattered. The latter argument is falsified by the fact that we went there 6 ****ing times, and for several years despite having already won the much-hyped Space Race for Big Dicks. We were, conveniently, being distracted by these five unnecessary "sloppy seconds" missions from a brutal genocide commonly known as the Vietnam War.

    Here is a compelling video of Apollo footage which clearly shows the astronauts creating misleading film. Interesting part starts ~7:30 and goes into part 5.

    They have, fairly elaborately, framed an earth shot to look as though they are halfway to the moon (thereabouts), but when they pan out and turn on the lights, you can see in the window that the earth is very close, and they are no further than low earth orbit! They did this several times. Why would they do that? Maybe because a huge and deadly radiation belt exists and prevents humans from safely flying to the moon in 1960s origami-style technology?

    The time stamp on the video also conflicts with the official Apollo timeline. Weird!

    Just to be clear, I am open to both the idea that we did land on the moon, or that we did not. I am not so cowed by prevailing orthodoxy or the stomping herd to challenge popular ideas. As with many other unpopular ideas I present, people take the opportunity to satisfy their strong emotional need for peer-acceptance with redundant and otherwise pointless "me too!" declarations.
    Last edited by HalfLotus; January 16, 2010, 00:20.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by ricketyclik View Post
      Annual "American" (I presume that means US) toilet paper spend is $2.4 billion

      well, there are an awful lot of *******s in America.

      Libraries are state sanctioned, so they're technically engaged in privateering. - Felch
      I thought we're trying to have a serious discussion? It says serious in the thread title!- Al. B. Sure

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      • #48
        Originally posted by HalfLotus View Post
        Just to be clear, I am open to both the idea that we did land on the moon, or that we did not. I am not so cowed by prevailing orthodoxy or the stomping herd to challenge popular ideas. As with many other unpopular ideas I present, people take the opportunity to satisfy their strong emotional need for peer-acceptance with redundant and otherwise pointless "me too!" declarations.
        Since you are open to the idea you should read the article Boris posted, it addresses the radiation belt argument, and brings up plenty of other additional fun stuff.
        Last edited by Whoha; January 16, 2010, 01:38.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Whoha View Post
          Since you are open to the idea you should read the article Boris posted, it addresses the radiation belt argument, and brings up plenty of other additional fun stuff.
          I did read the article which, for the record, has this at the top:

          "This page is based on a television special...aired on the Fox Network in March, 2001"
          Fox News? I'm sold!

          I'm aware that the article is a "debunking" of said show, but if they can't communicate that clearly in their very first sentence I tend to doubt their competence. But since we're on a learning mission, I waded to the radiation part and it does make sense.

          What I'm having a hard time understanding is why, if in '69 the radiation was no big deal, NASA says in 2005:

          "NASA's Vision for Space Exploration calls for a return to the Moon...But there's a potential showstopper: radiation."
          They go on to discuss all sorts of wacky solutions, from obviously impractical concrete rockets (???), to craziness like this:



          Why are we reinventing the wheel here? Just do it like in '69 and shoot some manly men up there and tell 'em to like it! And then this bizarre statement, circa 2005:

          "But, who knows, perhaps one day astronauts on the Moon...will work safely"
          Interesting.

          And while we're thinking in terms of then and now, let's revisit the China landing which may or may not happen in the future. Why does it take China and Russia some 20 years (with 2010 technology and know-how, no less) to do what it took the U.S. 8 years to do in the 1960s? Even supposing there are no delays, which I would think highly unlikely, the wiki says it only "might be possible in 2025–2030."

          Don't even bother with the obvious "they're Commies, they suck." because the Russians kicked our butts up, down, and around the earth for the better part of 2 decades.
          Last edited by HalfLotus; January 16, 2010, 05:44.

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          • #50
            That article is talking about trips to mars and permenant moon bases. these will present a radiation hazard greater than a visit to the moon.

            As to why it is going to take China and Russia so long, they are commies, they suck. They aren't spending anywhere near what the apollo program did, so why should they expect comparable results in terms of time?
            Last edited by Whoha; January 16, 2010, 11:00.

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            • #51
              Wait, I'm confused. I thought there was no reason to go back? It's just rock and dust, and stuff. So why the heck are we planning whole lunar bases, with cars, and radiodomes, and so forth?

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              • #52
                Clearly, they are planning for the day that the outer space treaty is abrogated and we can put nuclear missile silos on the moon.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by HalfLotus View Post
                  Don't even bother with the obvious "they're Commies, they suck." because the Russians kicked our butts up, down, and around the earth for the better part of 2 decades.
                  You do realize the Russkies got Spunik up 1st b/c one of their scientists was following U.S. research, right?
                  I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                  I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

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                  • #54
                    That's utter bull****, Theben. They beat us fair and square on Sputnik and many other space milestones besides. To this day, the Russians are more competent than us on a wide range of space activities. This on a space budget that is a small fraction of ours.
                    I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Whoha View Post
                      Clearly, they are planning for the day that the outer space treaty is abrogated and we can put nuclear missile silos on the moon.
                      I think you've hit pretty close to the mark here, my friend.

                      If one were to simply consider the possibility that the U.S. government had lied about and faked the moon landings, motive and means would have to be established.

                      One thing that isn't a secret is the US government is willing to and capable of telling of some pretty big whoppers, and to fake some serious **** (Tonkin/WMD), to advance their military agenda.

                      The means doesn't seem impossible either. Film some stuff that looks like the moon, slap it on the boob tube, and tell people it's the moon. Once you've convinced a significant majority, characterize the non-believers as wackos and bingo, "manufactured reality".

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                      • #56
                        WhyTF would we want nuclear missile silos four days' rocket flight from Earth?
                        1011 1100
                        Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by HalfLotus View Post
                          Here is a compelling video of Apollo footage which clearly shows the astronauts creating misleading film. Interesting part starts ~7:30 and goes into part 5.

                          They have, fairly elaborately, framed an earth shot to look as though they are halfway to the moon (thereabouts), but when they pan out and turn on the lights, you can see in the window that the earth is very close, and they are no further than low earth orbit! They did this several times. Why would they do that? Maybe because a huge and deadly radiation belt exists and prevents humans from safely flying to the moon in 1960s origami-style technology?

                          The time stamp on the video also conflicts with the official Apollo timeline. Weird!
                          Do you even try to find rebuttals to these stupid claims you post beforehand? I've found it really easy to find these things, so I can only guess that you're just too intellectually lazy/dishonest to properly look into these things before you throw them out.



                          Sibrel's claims are just wrong. And he's engaging in deliberate manipulation, too.
                          Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Elok View Post
                            WhyTF would we want nuclear missile silos four days' rocket flight from Earth?
                            To nuke Russian and Chinese moon bases, duh.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Whoha View Post
                              To nuke Russian and Chinese moon bases, duh.

                              I highly doubt the Nazi moonbase would allow the Russians to build any there. Their NWO brethren from the U.S. and China would of course be welcome.
                              Unbelievable!

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Drake Tungsten View Post
                                HL literally believes in every conspiracy theory.

                                Well that's not technically true; so far he hasn't jumped into UFO territory yet, but maybe he's saving the best for last.
                                Unbelievable!

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