Why haven't we been back to the moon?

[HalfLotus]

I'm so stupid, I should have known to watch a Hollywood movie to get a better sense of reality. Thanks, germ!

And no doubt the end result is not worth it, given NASA's track record. The result of the Apollo program was for them to lose nearly every single original electronic record of the missions. Easily the most impressive human journey in the history of the earth, and it's all just "lost"? Doesn't seem a little...what's the word...unbelievable?

Perhaps not surprising Congress won't give NASA the money, they'd probly just lose it!

And the "Apollo way" looks to me like a combination of amateur origami and Christmas wrapping paper:



With **** like that going to the moon and back, I'm surprised the Haitians haven't been out for a lunar stroll or ten.

[Boris Godunov]

Easily the most impressive human journey in the history of the earth, and it's all just "lost"? Doesn't seem a little...what's the word...unbelievable?

Yes it's unbelievable, but that's because it's not entirely true.

First, all of the moon footage taken by NASA is extant, just not most of the original telemetry tapes. The footage was converted to another format, so there wasn't really any need for the originals. It looks like most of them were copied over, which makes sense for a program on a budget.

However, they have located some of the original tapes and recently restored them:

http://www.tgdaily.com/space-features/43282-lost-moon-landing-tapes-dusted-off-and-restored

As for the plans for the rocket and module:

The blueprints for the Saturn V rocket has been lost or destroyed.

I am not sure why this claim is supposed to imply a hoax, but we will look at it anyway. If the hoax advocates mean that there is no complete set of blueprints, then yes, this does not exist, nor has it ever. The millions of documents relating to the Saturn V and its components were spread out across the country among a dozen NASA centers and hundreds of contractors. Certainly many copies of these documents have been discarded, but much of it still exists. Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama has much Saturn documentation on microfilm and the Federal Archives in East Point, Georgia has 2,900 cubic feet of Saturn documents. Rocketdyne, who built the F-1 and J-2 engines, has in its archives dozens of volumes from its Knowledge Retention Program.

Plans for the Lunar Module and Lunar Rover have been destroyed and no longer exist.

Much paperwork relating to the Lunar Module and Rover has been discarded, however this is to be expected. No company is going to keep in storage millions of documents for an obsolete project that has no chance of being resurrected. But it is not true to say the documents no longer exist. The National Archives microfilmed everything they thought was historically significant and those films are currently in storage. It is not uncommon for space enthusiasts and modelers to find many obscure facts and details about the LM, Rover, and other Apollo hardware.

http://www.braeunig.us/space/hoax.htm

As for the Russians, why would they continue to spend millions and millions they could ill-afford to spend to be an also-ran to the moon? They entire point of the lunar missions was a prestige thing, and nobody would care that they got there second.

The Russians have never disputed the U.S. moon landings. They had more incentive than anyone to do so. The fact that the Russians rather gracefully accepted that they got beat and went on to other things is a pretty good indication they had no doubts the landings were genuine.

[ricketyclik]

Annual "American" (I presume that means US) toilet paper spend is $2.4 billion

[HalfLotus]

The footage was converted to another format, so there wasn't really any need for the originals.

Oh yes, once they made copies someone said, "**** it, I'm taping the World Series over this crap."

And I guess we can stop spending millions of dollars protecting and preserving the U.S. Constitution and thousands of other historical documents of groundbreaking events. Who needs 'em when we got copies? They're just ugly old papers anyway - chuck em and spend that money on $600 toilet seats for the DoD.

[Boris Godunov]

Oh yes, once they made copies someone said, "**** it, I'm taping the World Series over this crap."

Did they tape the World Series over them, or, you know, actual things relevant to their mission?

My dad took all our old slides and scanned them onto a computer. He then GASP threw out the slides! Oh noes!

Who the **** gives a ****?

And I guess we can stop spending millions of dollars protecting and preserving the U.S. Constitution and thousands of other historical documents of groundbreaking events. Who needs 'em when we got copies? They're just ugly old papers anyway - chuck em and spend that money on $600 toilet seats for the DoD.

If the original Constitution had been lost and all we had were copies, would that somehow mean the U.S. Government was invalid?

Preserving it is nice for historical curiosity, but it's hardly vital or even necessary. That's the very reason we *make copies* of things.

[HalfLotus]

My dad took all our old slides and scanned them onto a computer. He then GASP threw out the slides! Oh noes!

Who the **** gives a ****?

We're talking about the most historic human journey ever. So unless your dad had slides of an alien invasion you royally fail at analogy.

If the original Constitution had been lost and all we had were copies, would that somehow mean the U.S. Government was invalid?

It suggests that the moon landing documentation wasn't all that important to some people. Especially when the lost documents in question were some 700 boxes large, and with 13,000 reels of ****. Kinda hard to lose under the seat cushions.

[Cort Haus]

There is no moon. It's all a fake.

[Boris Godunov]

We're talking about the most historic human journey ever. So unless your dad had slides of an alien invasion you royally fail at analogy.

If my dad had slides of such a thing and then made tons of copies of the pictures and destroyed the slides, it would be of the same importance. None.

"Most historic human journey ever?" Really? Did it really change the course of human history much? If we'd never gone to the moon, would our lives be remarkably different today?

It suggests that the moon landing documentation wasn't all that important to some people. Especially when the lost documents in question were some 700 boxes large, and with 13,000 reels of ****. Kinda hard to lose under the seat cushions.

It suggests that since they had copies of everything, taking up space with the originals wasn't that important to some people, sure. Even so, so what? It's not like scientists/engineers are known for sentimental attachment to such things. There's not much logical reason to occupy space with originals when you have perfectly good copies that take up considerably less space, thanks to the conversion processes.

[HalfLotus]

Moon landings were just another day at the beach then, I guess. Silly me.

But, following the conventional "reasoning", if all that mattered was the first manned mission - popping the proverbial lunar cherry - then why did we send five more manned missions after Apollo 11? Six if you include Apollo 13's failure.

Clearly we'd already proven ourselves the top dogs with the biggest dicks aboard Apollo 11's maiden voyage. Americans were even complaining that the astronauts were interrupting I Love Lucy episodes. The money could've been spent winning the Cold War against Russia, or the simultaneous 'hot' war in Vietnam, or God-only-knows-how-many covert wars at the time. Russians had supposedly scrapped their entire program since they weren't number one. But we decided to send five more manned missions in just three years.

So it very obviously wasn't all about being "first", because we decided we wanted to be first, second, third, fourth, fifth, and sixth!

And yet no country in the 37 years since has wanted to or been capable of being lucky number seven? Think of the marketing opportunities!

[Whoha]

Those (faked moon landings of course) were all budgeted in together, we didn't set up the studios and film it all in a piecemeal fashion. also we had to do it a couple of more times to prove it wasn't a fluke, and rub everyone's noses in moon rocks.

[Boris Godunov]

Moon landings were just another day at the beach then, I guess. Silly me.

Yeah, which of course is not remotely close to anything I said.

Can you find a point and stick with it, or is that too much to ask?

I do love how you answered your own question, though:

Americans were even complaining that the astronauts were interrupting I Love Lucy episodes.

And that, dear boy, is why we don't want to go to the moon anymore. A few years after 1969, Americans were already bored with it. People in the U.S. don't care about it, and convincing tax payers that it's a good use of resources would be impossible (because it isn't a good use).

And another:

And no other country wants to hang their hat on the moon either?

Doesn't make sense.

China is planning to, as is India by 2015-2020 (in 2008 they sent their first unmanned mission, but they lost contact with the probe). Other countries are planning to as well, including Japan.

Could you possibly be right about ANYTHING for a change?

[Guynemer]

I ignored this thread initially, since I saw it was created by HL, and I figured it must be worthless.

Then I saw that Boris had the most recent post, so I decided to peek in.


HOLY ****

Moon landing denial? Really?

[Drake Tungsten]

Why are you surprised? HL literally believes in every conspiracy theory.

[HalfLotus]

and rub everyone's noses in moon rocks.

And petrified wood. That'll show em!

People in the U.S. don't care about it, and convincing tax payers that it's a good use of resources would be impossible (because it isn't a good use).

Yeah the U.S. Congress is so ultra responsive to the American public, and really gives a **** what they think. Can we have this debate on earth please?

[Boris Godunov]

And petrified wood. That'll show em!

So what? The geologists knew by looking at it that it wasn't a moon rock.

But geologists can request moon rocks from NASA for testing, so long as they don't do any destructive tests on them. It's apparently pretty easy to get them, as this scientist notes:

http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/ConspiracyTheoryDidWeGototheMoon.htm

You'd think that if all moon rocks were petrified wood, there'd have been someone who noticed by now.

Or maybe they DID and have all been eliminated!

Yeah the U.S. Congress is so ultra responsive to the American public, and really gives a **** what they think. Can we have this debate on earth please?

The fact that you think this is a convincing response precludes any reasonable debate with you. That, and the fact you've categorically ignored any facts that are inconvenient for you.