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  • Baby Jesus + Anti-Abortion = No Go

    At least, not in Toronto.

    Keep 'pro-life' politics out of manger display, city says

    Brendan Kennedy

    The nativity scene in front of Old City Hall is a 13-year tradition. But this year, a plaque paying tribute to “Pro Life hero” Father Ted Colleton was added, sparking complaints. The plaque has been ordered removed by the city.

    Baby Jesus can stay, but the anti-abortion message has to go.

    That's what the city told the Roman Catholic group behind the nativity scene at the Old City Hall courthouse Wednesday. The Jesus, Mary and Joseph figures are a 13-year tradition, but not the new plaque paying tribute to a "Pro Life hero."

    "You've got an overtly political group that's getting a city endorsement of their agenda," said Doug Macdonald, an East York resident who complained in writing to his councillor, Sandra Bussin, and to Mayor David Miller. "And here we are putting their political message in front of the courthouse."

    Macdonald said in an interview he's not offended by a glass-enclosed, two-metre-high scene – but by Campaign Life Coalition's sponsorship plaque stating it was donated "in honour of Pro Life hero Fr. Ted Colleton."

    Colleton, a retired priest and anti-abortion activist, was arrested more than a dozen times for civil disobedience – most famously for padlocking Henry Morgentaler's Harbord St. clinic in 1985.

    The Campaign Life Coalition describes itself as "the political wing of the pro-life movement in Canada" and lobbies politicians to outlaw abortions. Its Catholic wing donated the nativity to Gethsemane Ministries, a non-profit Catholic charity, to display on the lawn of the courthouse at Queen and Bay Sts.

    The city ordered Gethsemane Ministries founder Suresh Dominic, who also works as a project manager for Campaign Life Coalition, to remove the plaque .

    "I don't understand why a molehill is made into a mountain," he said on his cellphone while on his way to remove the plaque. "I have no problem taking down the plaque, but I'm wondering how this is offending people."

    Dominic's group has put up the nativity at Old City Hall since 2006. Before then, the St. Thomas More Lawyers Guild was behind it. They first erected the scene in 1996, according to the city.

    This year was the first time the nativity scene was sponsored by the Campaign Life Coalition and the first time any sign appeared, which, the city said, was not approved when Gethsemane Ministries applied for a permit.

    "They've been doing this for 13 years the same way and this year, year 14, they added the sign without notifying staff," wrote city spokeswoman Cindy Bromley in an email. "It is being remedied."

    Dominic said the nativity scene donated to his group by the lawyers' guild was vandalized two years ago and had to be replaced. Last year, the ministries rented a manger scene, but this year sought donors. The coalition's Catholic wing stepped forward with $5,000.

    "It could be anybody donating the statue," Dominic said, adding that "there's nothing political" about the nativity scene.

    "Of course, if somebody donates something, you have to give credit to them," he said. "Nobody else came forward with the money ... People don't appreciate any goodness. I'm really terribly confused here," he said, adding that the nativity scene was donated in honour of a retired priest, "not a politician."

    Macdonald, 35, said he was glad to see the city take quick action on removing the plaque and that Dominic's group was accountable.

    "It's nice to see that Christmas stays politics-free," he said.

    Councillors queried about how the ideological message could have slipped through the cracks said the city doesn't have the resources to inspect every public installation.

    "A lot of things in the city now are complaint-driven just because of resources of staff," Bussin said.

    Councillor Joe Mihevc said a nativity scene is welcome in public places, as are symbols from other religions.

    "I do think, however, a political line is crossed when you try to introduce a more political – and a more politically controversial – message in a public square."

    Asked to comment Wednesday, a Campaign Life Coalition representative said Dominic could speak on the group's behalf.


    "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
    "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
    "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

  • #2
    I wonder if it had just said "in honor of Fr. Ted Colleton." if there would have been a problem.
    It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
    RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

    Comment


    • #3
      Ugh. I really wonder why people can't just mind their own damn business sometimes. Some group is supporting some something or another that you disagree with. Who gives a ****? Find something better to do than complain, goddammit.
      Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
      "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

      Comment


      • #4
        I have no idea why you think it's ridiculous to complain that somebody's using privileged access to city property to display a divisive political message
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
          I have no idea why you think it's ridiculous to complain that somebody's using privileged access to city property to display a divisive political message
          QFT
          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

          Comment


          • #6
            It seems like a classic example of Canadian good sense compared to the **** that happens in the US wrt religion.

            Nobody gives a **** when it's just a manger. As soon as you add a giant sign that says "God Hates Fags" or something the city council tosses it out. No court actions necessary.
            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
            Stadtluft Macht Frei
            Killing it is the new killing it
            Ultima Ratio Regum

            Comment


            • #7
              Bigger fish to fry/pick your battles/etc.
              Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
              "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

              Comment


              • #8
                Actually, I just as surprised that the city allows such a blatant display supporting the christian faiths. In many cities now, the Christmas Killjoys have sued to have any religious display removed from government land. You know, the old seperation of church and state stuff

                Personally, I think some people have way too much time on their hands...
                Keep on Civin'
                RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ming, it's in Canada. We don't have a constitutional wall between church and state. Despite that, there's a lot less religion in our politics.
                  12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                  Stadtluft Macht Frei
                  Killing it is the new killing it
                  Ultima Ratio Regum

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Lori, the "battle" seems to be over with pretty quick. The manger stays, the plaque goes. There's no downside here. It's not like the pledge of allegiance lawsuit or something.
                    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                    Stadtluft Macht Frei
                    Killing it is the new killing it
                    Ultima Ratio Regum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Display of the manger should be free of ANY political messages.
                      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I only start to give a **** about this stuff when it affects the actual operation of the government. I don't want the Constitution contravened by having a government with religious leanings, but I just can't bring myself to care when someone puts up a random sign I disagree with.

                        And honestly, if someone did put up a "God Hates Fags" sign - offensive though that may be - I'd find it hilarious. Brighten my day it would.
                        Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                        "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm sure the Fags wouldn't find it quite so hilarious.
                          It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                          RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                            Ming, it's in Canada. We don't have a constitutional wall between church and state.
                            I know... but it's still funny reading about how the manger is fine, but the plaque if toast. I'm so used to reading here about how more and more municipalities are bowing down to a very small minority that has made it their mission in life to remove all mangers from every city.
                            Keep on Civin'
                            RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rah View Post
                              I'm sure the Fags wouldn't find it quite so hilarious.
                              Fine, make it a God Hates Jews/Nerds/Skinny People sign. I'd still think it was hilarious.
                              Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
                              "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

                              Comment

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