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My Lai Tip of the Iceberg

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  • My Lai Tip of the Iceberg

    Too bad MtG isn't still around. I'd give him a big, fat, "Told you so."

    Civilian Killings Went Unpunished
    Declassified papers show U.S. atrocities went far beyond My Lai.

    The men of B Company were in a dangerous state of mind. They had lost five men in a firefight the day before. The morning of Feb. 8, 1968, brought unwelcome orders to resume their sweep of the countryside, a green patchwork of rice paddies along Vietnam's central coast.

    They met no resistance as they entered a nondescript settlement in Quang Nam province. So Jamie Henry, a 20-year-old medic, set his rifle down in a hut, unfastened his bandoliers and lighted a cigarette.

    Just then, the voice of a lieutenant crackled across the radio. He reported that he had rounded up 19 civilians, and wanted to know what to do with them. Henry later recalled the company commander's response:

    Kill anything that moves.

    Henry stepped outside the hut and saw a small crowd of women and children. Then the shooting began.

    Moments later, the 19 villagers lay dead or dying.

    Back home in California, Henry published an account of the slaughter and held a news conference to air his allegations. Yet he and other Vietnam veterans who spoke out about war crimes were branded traitors and fabricators. No one was ever prosecuted for the massacre.

    Now, nearly 40 years later, declassified Army files show that Henry was telling the truth — about the Feb. 8 killings and a series of other atrocities by the men of B Company.

    The files are part of a once-secret archive, assembled by a Pentagon task force in the early 1970s, that shows that confirmed atrocities by U.S. forces in Vietnam were more extensive than was previously known.

    The documents detail 320 alleged incidents that were substantiated by Army investigators — not including the most notorious U.S. atrocity, the 1968 My Lai massacre.

    Though not a complete accounting of Vietnam war crimes, the archive is the largest such collection to surface to date. About 9,000 pages, it includes investigative files, sworn statements by witnesses and status reports for top military brass.

    The records describe recurrent attacks on ordinary Vietnamese — families in their homes, farmers in rice paddies, teenagers out fishing. Hundreds of soldiers, in interviews with investigators and letters to commanders, described a violent minority who murdered, raped and tortured with impunity.

    Abuses were not confined to a few rogue units, a Times review of the files found. They were uncovered in every Army division that operated in Vietnam.

    Retired Brig. Gen. John H. Johns, a Vietnam veteran who served on the task force, says he once supported keeping the records secret but now believes they deserve wide attention in light of alleged attacks on civilians and abuse of prisoners in Iraq.

    "We can't change current practices unless we acknowledge the past," says Johns, 78.

    Among the substantiated cases in the archive:

    • Seven massacres from 1967 through 1971 in which at least 137 civilians died.

    • Seventy-eight other attacks on noncombatants in which at least 57 were killed, 56 wounded and 15 sexually assaulted.

    • One hundred forty-one instances in which U.S. soldiers tortured civilian detainees or prisoners of war with fists, sticks, bats, water or electric shock.

    Investigators determined that evidence against 203 soldiers accused of harming Vietnamese civilians or prisoners was strong enough to warrant formal charges. These "founded" cases were referred to the soldiers' superiors for action....
    Full Article
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

  • #2
    A conscript army will never have the discipline necessary to fight in a guerilla war.
    Indeed, it is a difficult task for any army.

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    • #3


      They're still happily blowing away wedding parties in Afghanistan - like this is some kind of surprise...
      Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

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      • #4
        Afghan wedding parties need to be bombed, in order to be saved from Taliban terrorism. Get with the program.
        John Brown did nothing wrong.

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        • #5
          Bombing Afghan weddings is tradition by now...
          "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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          • #6
            There are no real Afghan weddings. Just hairy terrorists wearing dresses.
            It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
            RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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            • #7
              I thought they just bomb gay marriages *hides*
              Blah

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              • #8
                only if they tell them it's a gay marriage.
                It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                Comment


                • #9
                  Back home in California, Henry published an account of the slaughter and held a news conference to air his allegations. Yet he and other Vietnam veterans who spoke out about war crimes were branded traitors and fabricators. No one was ever prosecuted for the massacre.

                  Now, nearly 40 years later, declassified Army files show that Henry was telling the truth — about the Feb. 8 killings and a series of other atrocities by the men of B Company.
                  This makes me even less inclined to believe the military today. Imagine what will be quietly published, and probably ignored, in 2045.

                  -Arrian
                  grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                  The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                  • #10
                    hmm, rah's back
                    Monkey!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      265 murders, assaults, and rapes in 5+ years? And if you looked at a cities where the number of 18-25 year old men matched the number of soldiers deployed, what would the crime rates among those young men be?

                      What MtG said, and what many others have said, is that crimes were committed by undisciplined men, but none of these were "military doctrine" espoused by the US military, unlike the tens of thousands of civilians massacred by the VC.
                      (\__/) Save a bunny, eat more Smurf!
                      (='.'=) Sponsored by the National Smurfmeat Council
                      (")_(") Smurf, the original blue meat! © 1999, patent pending, ® and ™ (except that "Smurf" bit)

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                      • #12
                        When the Chinese attacked the Vietnamese in 1979, they were initially disciplined too. But after getting stabbed in the back by "civilians", they also massacred several villages and towns.

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                        • #13
                          Wow, pathetic display of Americanism. You have draftees trained at lightning speed to send them off to fight a vicious war. They were stressed out, they did not want to be there, they had lost friends, they couldn't even sleep without fear of a VC bayonet getting stuck in them and every village they went into they had to find VC or weapons or so on and so forth....now here you all are, talking **** about them. Again, civilians down talking soldiers without actually know what it is like.

                          I don't condone what happened, its disgusting, but the fact that you, Arrian, have the audacity to say you don't trust the military for an individual action in the 1960's-70's? Words can't describe how sick you make me.
                          "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
                          "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

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                          • #14
                            Wow, pathetic display of Americanism. You have draftees trained at lightning speed to send them off to fight a vicious war.
                            How is a regular three months basic plus advanced infantry course at the very least "lightening speed?" Its the same thing they get now.
                            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                            • #15
                              Trust me Pat, I am aware of that. We are at war as it is, the differences now though not only vary because of the war but also due to volunteer force and technology. When I got in we still were learning Vietnam tactics, we didn't learn urban tactics, we tested urban with paintball but it was for fun mostly. We didn't do humvees or mounted tactics, all tanks and infantry stuff. It was 18 weeks, 2 weeks cut off cause of xmas. We learned the basics, obviously and the left was up to the unit. The problem back then was the unit didn't have time to train before just making it OJT.
                              "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the Blood of Patriots and tyrants" Thomas Jefferson
                              "I can merely plead that I'm in the presence of a superior being."- KrazyHorse

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