Why were these thrown out?

[Sirotnikov]

Because Palestinians aren't entitled to somebody else's land.

fixed

[KrazyHorse]

Why are Israelis entitled to land which formerly had Arabs living on it, then? As I recall, you have made the argument that by fleeing in 1948 they ceded the right to their land...

[Sirotnikov]

Jewish families owning property in East Jerusalem??

I suggest you reread your history books, or at least use this tool called 'the google' before making ignorant comments.

thx.

[KrazyHorse]

C'mon, siro: where's your respect for Arab claims on land abandoned in 1948?

[chequita guevara]

It was only abandoned because the people living on it weren't allowed to return.

[Sirotnikov]

. By the way, if we're NOT recognizing adverse possession now I'm looking forward to the tens of thousands of successful lawsuits against property owners in Israel proper...

This is actually something that bothers me, and I think is the reason why this took years to implement.

I think if it was up to the government (not court) this wouldn't have happened. The court case, I think, was quite strong from the start, and I doubt it took so much in deliberation.

[KrazyHorse]

The Israeli government had all the power in the world to prevent this from happening. They could easily have made a law saying that current tenants in conquered territory would be respected as property owners. Instead, they chose to allow these types of lawsuits to go forward. The Israeli government has been deeply complicit with the settlement movement on this issue.

[Sirotnikov]

C'mon, siro: where's your respect for Arab claims on land abandoned in 1948?

I wasn't refering to that, and you can see I agree with your point.

That does not make Zkrib any less wrong on the fact that Jews used to own land in areas that are now in the Palestinian authority. Land which they lost during the war or earlier.

As I said, I don't think this was a smart idea at all, but the court had nowhere to go.

[Sirotnikov]

The Israeli government had all the power in the world to prevent this from happening. They could easily have made a law saying that current tenants in conquered territory would be respected as property owners. Instead, they chose to allow these types of lawsuits to go forward. The Israeli government has been deeply complicit with the settlement movement on this issue.

a) The Israeli government is far less effective and efficient than you might presume. They've neglected bigger things.

b) Do you really think it is politically viable for an Israeli PM to pass laws which prevent jews from regaining control of land they can prove they own?


Had this been a government idea, it would have never passed without major criticism and the coalition very likely breaking down. Everyone had it really easy that it was a court decision, and I think the state relied on the courts to tell it what to do.

It often does for steps that are unpopular.

But remember the courts evict Jews too - courts recently ruled for eviction of Jewish squatters in Hebron, and that was carried out as well, with major police and army intervention.

[Sirotnikov]

It was only abandoned because the people living on it weren't allowed to return.

Several thousands were allowed to return until 1951 or so.

The borders were closed because of fedayeen attacks, as far as I'm aware.

[KrazyHorse]

b) Do you really think it is politically viable for an Israeli PM to pass laws which prevent jews from regaining control of land they can prove they own?

This is exactly the same type of responsibility ducking which the Israeli gov't criticizes (rightly) when people use it to defend Fatah et al.

[chequita guevara]

Thousands were allowed to return until 1951 or so.

The borders were closed because of fedayeen attacks, as far as I'm aware.

Yeah, well, you didn't let three quarters of a million back in, so thousands doesn't really impress me. That's like Bernie Madoff giving back a few dollars.

[Sirotnikov]

b) Do you really think it is politically viable for an Israeli PM to pass laws which prevent jews from regaining control of land they can prove they own?

This is exactly the same type of responsibility ducking which the Israeli gov't criticizes (rightly) when people use it to defend Fatah et al.

I realize that and acknowledge this. I also sometimes put it to good use here

However, while this is often used for 'point scoring' in the white house or in CNN, in reality Israel (especially under left wing governments) is usually forgiving on such issues.

There is an understanding in the political as well as the top army echelon that Abbas has his limits of what can he do. High ranking IDF commanders are very often more left wing on such issues that their political superiors.

One example is an agreement that was reached a year ago where Fatah (Al Aqsa martyrs) terrorists would be forgiven and not chased if they give up their weapons to the PA, and assume official roles in Fatah.

Abbas was pushing for this for a long time, and Israel was very skeptical but in the end it worked (well, they have been trying this since 2005, to have the Al-Aqsa martyrs rejoin central fatah command, and stop their warlord behavior).

[KrazyHorse]

Siro, it's not like the US unleashed the ****ing bombers on Israel over this. It put a little bit of pressure on Israel to incentivize its leadership to actually do something instead of allowing its courts to continue to expropriate Arab residents of occupied territories, which is hopelessly counterproductive.

[Sirotnikov]

Yeah, well, you didn't let three quarters of a million back in, so thousands doesn't really impress me. That's like Bernie Madoff giving back a few dollars.

I know you don't care, so I won't be going preaching about how it is unrealistic to let back in 600K of enemous citizens in a newly established country of 500K citizens, which they hate, and whose leadership they hate.

UN decision 194 sort of acknowledges that it is problematic:

refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date