Obama vs. Cambridge police

[a.kitman]

It's natural for hoodlums like a.kitman to hate the cops. Do you regularly get thank yous from criminals?

Seriously though, many people on the left hate cops until they actually need them.

is it possable to be right of dinodoc tho?

[Dis]

it's not really the left that hates cops. but poor people in general hate them. You've all seen the show cops, you should know.

But it's true in a way. Cops do seem to harass poor people. I see it all the times (as I live in somewhat poor neighborhood). If you drive a crappy car and you look the type to have drugs on you, expect to get pulled over. . Though I once had a cop shine his floodlights into my car I think it was because I was playing my stereo loud.

[Berzerker]

Tell ya what, Berz. Let's try an experiment. Wait 3 months for the publicity to die off. Try to break into your own home and have a neighbor call the police. Shout at the officer(s) and accuse them of abusing their authority when you are asked to provide ID, and see if you get a ride down to HQ and an arrest on your record.

on what charge?

If the officer went inside the home without backup, the officer's life is potentially in danger. Were there actual robbers in the home the officer could be ambushed. That's what police are trained to watch out for.

You should be able to figure this one out. Why are you being a dumbass?

And this cop got into an argument instead of searching the house? Or did he search the house first and then start arguing with Gates? Lets see if you can figure this out, Gates was arrested after the cop told him to walk out onto his porch while mouthing off - disorderly conduct. Thats what the cop did, and its a dirty trick - a trumped up charge. Whatever concern the cop had about burglars was long gone by that time...

I knew somebody whose house was broken into by a robbery crew. She arrived home while they were in the house. The first thing the robbers did was jam a toothpick in the lock so the owner can't just walk right in. She did what Gates did, went around back to get in the other way. Back door lock also jammed, she went to a sliding glass door and saw the four robbers leaving through the front door.

Thats nice, and its irrelevant. Lets deal with the facts Strawbow and not somebody you knew

So, even if the initial suspect is the actual owner, the possible presence of robber(s) in the home is a potential danger. The cop did the right thing, as he was trained.

Was the cop trained to get Gates to walk out onto the porch while mouthing off so he could arrest him for disorderly conduct? Yeah, the cop was real concerned with burglars by that time. Nothing you said is relevant as to why Gates was arrested. Good job

[DinoDoc]

Berz if the cop was looking to arrest him, why would he have told him several times to calm the hell down and go back inside before finally giving up and arresting him?

[Berzerker]

he was looking to make an arrest when he told Gates to step out onto the porch during their argument. That was the basis for charging Gates with disorderly conduct. Obviously the confrontation escalated to the point the cop got mad too, and he reacted by inventing an excuse to arrest him.

[DinoDoc]

That's not an answer to the question, Berz. He told him several times to calm down and go back inside according to reports because he was being disorderly. If he was looking to arrest him as you say, why go through the trouble?

[Berzerker]

I just told you, the confrontation escalated and the cop got mad too. Once the cop confirmed he was the homeowner he should have left.

[Straybow]

on what charge?

Resisting lawful directions of a law enforcement officer. The charge may not stick, but they'll tag you for it.

And this cop got into an argument instead of searching the house? Or did he search the house first and then start arguing with Gates? Lets see if you can figure this out, Gates was arrested after the cop told him to walk out onto his porch while mouthing off - disorderly conduct. Thats what the cop did, and its a dirty trick - a trumped up charge. Whatever concern the cop had about burglars was long gone by that time...

If you paid attention to the details, the Sgt was originally there alone, no back up. You don't go in where there may be multiple suspects (see below).

Thats nice, and its irrelevant. Lets deal with the facts Strawbow and not somebody you knew

No, not irrelevant. That kind of situation is why cops are trained to do things a particular way instead of just "winging it" without any knowledge of who the suspect is or what may be happening.

Was the cop trained to get Gates to walk out onto the porch while mouthing off so he could arrest him for disorderly conduct? Yeah, the cop was real concerned with burglars by that time. Nothing you said is relevant as to why Gates was arrested. Good job

Again, if you paid attention, the cop should not go in a potential burglary in progress without backup. Period.

[Berzerker]

Resisting lawful directions of a law enforcement officer. The charge may not stick, but they'll tag you for it.

That aint what he charged Gates with, and I'd agree with you on that if Gates was interfering with the cop's investigation of burglary. But the cop's own report rules that out, he said he was satisfied early on that Gates wasn't a burglar - he'd be face down and in cuffs real fast if that wasn't the case.

If you paid attention to the details, the Sgt was originally there alone, no back up. You don't go in where there may be multiple suspects (see below).

But he did go in, and I did read his report. He said he was arguing with Gates
inside before another cop showed up behind him.

No, not irrelevant. That kind of situation is why cops are trained to do things a particular way instead of just "winging it" without any knowledge of who the suspect is or what may be happening.

It is irrelevant, this was not one of those situations. The cop was satisfied for whatever reason (the woman who called met him outside the house and they both saw Gates) there weren't burglars running around inside.

Again, if you paid attention, the cop should not go in a potential burglary in progress without backup. Period.

He did go in and was talking to Gates by himself. What you think he should have done aint relevant.

[KrazyHorse]

I've never seen a libertarian accuse rape victims of intruding upon their attackers by resisting (thats your "logic"). And since David and I dont agree on this issue, try to limit yer BS to one of us

sorry KH, I gotta let that go

"Begging the question". Perhaps you've heard of it, twit.

[Berzerker]

has what to do with your accusation that victims of attack are intruding if they resist (or runaway)?

[KrazyHorse]

a) I was not "accusing" anybody of anything. An accusation carries with it an implicit moral judgment

b) "I'm against anybody imposing their will on anybody else" "What about self defence?" "That's not an imposition"

[Theben]

Doesn't matter. The cop and professor are gonna get liquored up at the White House and then drive home. Probably.

[Straybow]

That aint what he charged Gates with, and I'd agree with you on that if Gates was interfering with the cop's investigation of burglary. But the cop's own report rules that out, he said he was satisfied early on that Gates wasn't a burglar - he'd be face down and in cuffs real fast if that wasn't the case.

OK, if you want to be an asshat, I'll treat you as one... Did I say "interfering with the cop's investigation of burglary?" No, I said, "Resisting lawful directions of a law enforcement officer." There doesn't have to be any investigation or crime in progress for police to issue a direction of lawful authority.

I admit that, as a layman regarding the laws of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, I wouldn't know the legal difference between a "public disturbance" arising from refusing an order to quiet down and go back inside his house versus a hypothetical charge of refusing to follow the officer's directions in that situation. You can consult with a lawyer if you think the difference is that significant.

But he did go in, and I did read his report. He said he was arguing with Gates
inside before another cop showed up behind him.

Again, please quote accurately if you're going to descend to asshattery. He did not initially go in, but requested that Gates talk to him on the porch. Crowley's report does not mention at what point he entered Gates' house, only that Gates opened the door while Crowley was identifying himself and that Crowley later radioed in that he "was off in the residence with someone who appeared to be a resident..."

This implies he did not enter until he was "led to believe that Gates was lawfully in the residence." Again, I can only speculate because it isn't in the report, but when Gates used the house phone to call the police department asking for "the chief" that might have been the tipping point for believing Gates was not a burglar.

It is irrelevant, this was not one of those situations. The cop was satisfied for whatever reason (the woman who called met him outside the house and they both saw Gates) there weren't burglars running around inside.

Does he actually say that? No, only that he was satisfied Gates was not a burglar. He seemed to have been operating under the assumption that a burglary had occurred until Gates' refusal to cooperate became the focus of attention in themselves.

In fact, there is no indication that Gates told the officers he had tried to break in his own house. Crowley's report says "Gates told me his door was un securable due to a previous break attempt at his residence." That bit of information only came out in Gates' press statement.

He did go in and was talking to Gates by himself. What you think he should have done aint relevant.

Initially he did not attempt to enter, which is procedure, and requested ID from the unidentified person in the house. Everything else centered around formally identifying Gates, until Gates made a public disturbance.

[DaShi]

Obama: Someone you can have a beer with.