Healthcare Reform Thread II

[Drake Tungsten]

Honesty

[Ecofarm]

I'm figuring that between agreeing with him "on obvious things" and idiot, I'll take my chances with idiot thanks.

If you wanna be "guy who often agrees with Drake", go for it - it's all you.

[Drake Tungsten]

guy who often agrees with Drake

He's a smart dude.

[Kidlicious]

50k children die everyday from lack of clean food and water, but we want life-saving surgery and chemo at age 60 for free. WTF

As much as I think Ecofarm is a dip****, I must admit this is a valid point. The transfer of wealth from the young and poor to the old and rich is one of the most distasteful aspects of our current healthcare system and wouldn't be improved by either Obama's proposed reforms or single payer.

Poor people can't afford insurance so how is wealth being transfered from them?

[Hauldren Collider]

Social security and medicare taxes. They're about 15 percent I believe, though they only show 7.5% on your paycheck, and claim the rest is paid by the employer

The whole thing is a Ponzi scheme, too. You're not putting any of that in savings, it goes directly to paying off people like my grandfather who can afford their treatment anyway.

[Kuciwalker]

*his

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

???????

Did you know that "God helps those who help themselves" is not a verse in the Bible?

Where was that implied in what I wrote?

The Bible actually says "Jer 17:5 (NIV) Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD,

A pretty good indication that one should not trust the constructs of man (i.e the government) and depend upon the force of arms (Flesh) for ones strength and compulsion to obey.

and Prov 28:26 (NIV) He who trusts in himself is a fool."

Course not. What I indicated was that one follows the guidance of the Lord, not the dictates of man.

Also there is nothing in the Bible that states that a government can not compel it's subjects.

Save what you yourself provided earlier.

Are you a christian?

I am. That being said I don't choose to cast judgement on others religious beliefs or engage in ad hominems about religious beliefs (save communism).

[MrFun]

She got turned down by her health insurance for having a pre-existing condition.

You're quick to judge aren't you?

Ogie would show no mercy. If you can't afford health insurance, or have a preexisting condition, you should die - simple as that.

[HalfLotus]

Kucinich on the current bill:

“This bill represents a giveaway to the insurance industry,” The representative from Ohio said. “$70 billion dollars a year, and no guarantees of any control over premiums, forcing people to buy private insurance, five consecutive years of double-digit premium increases.”

“I told the president twice in two different meetings that I couldn’t support the bill if it didn’t have a robust public option and at least if it didn’t have something that was going to protect consumers from these rampant premium increases,” he added.

“The fact is that one out of every three health care dollars goes for corporate profits, stocks options, executive salaries, advertising, marketing, the cost of paperwork – this bill doesn’t change that.” he said.

In January, Kucinich savaged Democrats over the health care bill, noting that “There’s nothing liberal about giving insurance companies carte blanche to charge anything they want for health care.”

“We lost the initiative the minute that our party jumped into bed with the insurance companies. And soon they were looking at increasing taxes as a way of subsidizing insurance companies. It’s just madness.” the congressman added.

Honest liberals.

[Drake Tungsten]

Then there is the larger issue of exploding federal deficits. A few Democrats are genuinely passionate about this, President Obama among them. He has fought tenaciously to preserve a commission that might restrain Medicare spending. But 90 percent of the people in Congress have no emotional investment in this issue.

They’re going through the motions. They’ve stuffed the legislation with gimmicks and dodges designed to get a good score from the Congressional Budget Office but don’t genuinely control runaway spending.

There is the doc fix dodge. The legislation pretends that Congress is about to cut Medicare reimbursements by 21 percent. Everyone knows that will never happen, so over the next decade actual spending will be $300 billion higher than paper projections.

There is the long-term care dodge. The bill creates a $72 billion trust fund to pay for a new long-term care program. The sponsors count that money as cost-saving, even though it will eventually be paid back out when the program comes on line.

There is the subsidy dodge. Workers making $60,000 and in the health exchanges would receive $4,500 more in subsidies in 2016 than workers making $60,000 and not in the exchanges. There is no way future Congresses will allow that disparity to persist. Soon, everybody will get the subsidy.

There is the excise tax dodge. The primary cost-control mechanism and long-term revenue source for the program is the tax on high-cost plans. But Democrats aren’t willing to levy this tax for eight years. The fiscal sustainability of the whole bill rests on the naïve hope that a future Congress will have the guts to accept a trillion-dollar tax when the current Congress wouldn’t accept an increase of a few billion.

There is the 10-6 dodge. One of the reasons the bill appears deficit-neutral in the first decade is that it begins collecting revenue right away but doesn’t have to pay for most benefits until 2014. That’s 10 years of revenues to pay for 6 years of benefits, something unlikely to happen again unless the country agrees to go without health care for four years every decade.

There is the Social Security dodge. The bill uses $52 billion in higher Social Security taxes to pay for health care expansion. But if Social Security taxes pay for health care, what pays for Social Security?

There is the pilot program dodge. Admirably, the bill includes pilot programs designed to help find ways to control costs. But it’s not clear that the bill includes mechanisms to actually implement the results. This is exactly what happened to undermine previous pilot program efforts.

The Democrats have not been completely irresponsible. It’s just that as the health fight has gone on, their passion for coverage has swamped their less visceral commitment to reducing debt. The result is a bill that is fundamentally imbalanced.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/09/opinion/09brooks.html

[Jon Miller]

I think there should be a rule that senators/congressmen/etc should be under 65.

JM

[Drake Tungsten]

That wouldn't change things, as younger politicians would still be beholden to the elderly in order to get elected. We either need the young to come to their senses and unite against entitlement spending () or we need term limits (which still might not do the trick).

[DanS]

Here's a funny list that Drudge has which demonstrates how health care has sucked all the air out of Washington for the last year. With nothing to show for it except a bad bill that nobody likes.

I don't think Obama and the Dem leadership know how to finish and pass this bill.

'END' OF THE 'END GAME' OR 'THE END'?

TODAY: Obama pushing on health care end game (AP)

Last year:

July 28: Healthcare endgame on Capitol Hill (Reuters)

August 21: Analysis: Health care endgame near but uncertain (AP)

October 14: Senate, administration begin healthcare endgame as Dem leaders express unity (Hill)

October 25: Senators say health care bill endgame is in sight (Politico)

October 27: End Game: So When Will Health Care Really Happen? (TPM)

October 30: Health reform inches closer to endgame (WaPo)

November 23: The Health Care Endgame (NPR)

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I don't think Obama and the Dem leadership know how to finish and pass this bill.

Aside from the obvious Duh moment and snarky commentary that the words Obama, Dem and leadership should not be used in the same sentence; the above statement is bad news in what regard?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Ogie would show no mercy.

Are you a christian?

I am. That being said I don't choose to cast judgement on others religious beliefs or engage in ad hominems about religious beliefs.

Judgmental bigotry does nothing to enlargen your world view.