Firefox "too expensive" for the State Dept....

[Solomwi]

Imran needs to quit accepting his employer's propaganda and take an objective, analytical look at the situation. Imran may have a point for one who simply can't be bothered to vote, but that point does not extend to conscientious objectors who recognize the futility of putting politicians of any stripe into power. But Imran can be forgiven for such an oversight, given Imran's MC prowess.

[Solomwi]

I'm kind of split on this one. I think a person should vote whenever they have an opportunity.

That's why you're part of the problem, Slowwy.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran realizes that the vast, vast majority of "conscientious objectors" are just lazy bastards who can't be bothered. Imran also realizes that most politicians depend on people staying home so they can get the most favorable match-up where their partisans are far more powerful relatively.

[Solomwi]

Imran realizes that the vast, vast majority of "conscientious objectors" are just lazy bastards who can't be bothered. Imran also realizes that most politicians depend on people staying home so they can get the most favorable match-up where their partisans are far more powerful relatively.

Imran uses a broad brush to paint over a key distinction. Solomwi realizes that even though what Imran describes does happen, it is to the benefit of one politician over another, and so of no concern to one who opposes both politicians. Imran is also drifting away from the basic principle that voters are the ones making the beds we all must lie in, but understandably, as it's fatal to Imran's argument.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Solomwi completely misunderstands. One who abstains due to both politicians is something both politicians like because they are knowable. He who votes, even though both politicians aren't necessarily his cup of tea, but he wants to pick one over the other are the dreaded undecideds that push the costs of any local race higher and higher in order to determine either how to get said undecideds or which way they are leaning.

Secondly, those who do not vote have had their voices heard. They've just recklessly chosen to be silent during the opportunity to speak. Therefore are less entitled to complain because they were chicken**** before. Voters at least are exercising their opportunity and are more entitled to complain later as a result, because at least they didn't act lazy or cowardly when having the opportunity to have their voices heard.

[Solomwi]

Solomwi completely misunderstands. One who abstains due to both politicians is something both politicians like because they are knowable. He who votes, even though both politicians aren't necessarily his cup of tea, but he wants to pick one over the other are the dreaded undecideds that push the costs of any local race higher and higher in order to determine either how to get said undecideds or which way they are leaning.

Secondly, those who do not vote have had their voices heard. They've just recklessly chosen to be silent during the opportunity to speak. Therefore are less entitled to complain because they were chicken**** before. Voters at least are exercising their opportunity and are more entitled to complain later as a result, because at least they didn't act lazy or cowardly when having the opportunity to have their voices heard.

Solomwi does not need to be disliked by politicians, but does need to be able to sleep with a clear conscience. Solomwi can not do that while bearing any responsibility for putting the politician into office.

Imran here falls prey to the classic bait and switch. Voting is an affirmative act that contributes to putting the politician into power. Not voting, in the pertinent sense, may entail a recognition that one politician will attain power anyway, but is an affirmative act that says "I refuse to be complicit in what comes next." Those who feel the need to share their responsibility for the resulting cluster**** as widely as possible often use Imran's argument to shift blame or shame others into taking part of the blame with them next time, but this is simply the product of a guilty soul.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Solomwi, unfortunately, has been fooled . Not voting is taking a right to speak out and instead engaging in silence. Leading to far, far less chance of Imran being sympathetic to the non-voters attempts to complain. At least if one votes and is dissatisfied with what comes next, he exercised his right to speak out and therefore, I'll respect his complaints as he actually tried to do something to change things.

Non-voters can lie to themselves all they want, but their non-voting or silly beliefs such as voting third party means nothing is a large part of the problem. And Imran will refuse to listen to their complaints as they seem unwilling or unable to actually do anything aside from mental masturbation.

[SlowwHand]

How can it be a government of the people and by the people, if the people don't say wtf they want?

[Solomwi]

Solomwi, unfortunately, has been fooled . Not voting is taking a right to speak out and instead engaging in silence. Leading to far, far less chance of Imran being sympathetic to the non-voters attempts to complain. At least if one votes and is dissatisfied with what comes next, he exercised his right to speak out and therefore, I'll respect his complaints as he actually tried to do something to change things.

Non-voters can lie to themselves all they want, but their non-voting or silly beliefs such as voting third party means nothing is a large part of the problem. And Imran will refuse to listen to their complaints as they seem unwilling or unable to actually do anything aside from mental masturbation.

Imran's bias in this matter, as both a government employee and a :shudder: voter, is duly noted, and accepted as an explanation for Imran's otherwise puzzling insistence that "no" equals silence. One who votes and finds himself dissatisfied has only himself and those who bought into the myth with him to blame. He gets no sympathy from Solomwi. As far as mental masturbation, Solomwi tends to agree with Carlin: stay home and do the actual thing on election day. At least then, one will have a little something to show for the masturbation when it's over with.

[Solomwi]

How can it be a government of the people and by the people, if the people don't say wtf they want?

Why would you quote a communist war criminal on what the government of the United States should be?

[notyoueither]

What happens if a majority of ballots cast are spoilied?

Would parties and potential candidates notice this?

Not voting as some kind of protest is lame.

[Solomwi]

What happens if a majority of ballots cast are spoilied?

Would parties and potential candidates notice this?

Not voting as some kind of protest is lame.

They get recounted until the Democrats win or Supreme Court steps in to decide who wins.

Yes.

Not a protest, a decision, and just as lame as refusing to rape someone in the park, shoot up heroin or knife the next random person you see. Regardless, the fact remains that less responsibility for the situation equals more entitlement to complain about the situation.

[notyoueither]

Bull****.

You've been irresponsible in choosing to merge with the apathetic and not count for anything. You've done nothing to register your disapproval in any way that counts other than thinking you're cool.

It takes a special kind of self importance to think that doing nothing entitles you to something, and not just stop there but consider it to give you some superiority over those who at least tried to do something.

[SlowwHand]

Why would you quote a communist war criminal on what the government of the United States should be?

I wasn't aware that I was, but he may have had some bright spots in an otherwise dim wit.

[Solomwi]

Bull****.

You've been irresponsible in choosing to merge with the apathetic and not count for anything. You've done nothing to register your disapproval in any way that counts other than thinking you're cool.

It takes a special kind of self importance to think that doing nothing entitles you to something, and not just stop there but consider it to give you some superiority over those who at least tried to do something.

"At least trying to do something" is not only misguided, but counterproductive, not just in politics, but any field, as it diverts resources into futile pursuits. You've bought into the myth without any critical thought, just like the rest, and this kind of visceral, uncontemplated response is to be expected anytime a cherished myth is challenged.

What you're overlooking is that the world does not begin and end with politics. Not voting is not doing nothing. It is not doing one particular thing. Not voting makes me not responsible for the result. It does not make me irresponsible. Irresponsible would be taking time away from more productive pursuits to engage in a process guaranteed to have a bad result.

And no, it doesn't take any self-importance, inflated ego, or any other shortcoming to recognize that not helping create a situation entitles one to complain about it. If the driver you're riding with runs the car into a tree, you have every right to complain... unless you were fighting him for control of the steering wheel. It's pretty simple, actually.