The Stimulus Is A Failure

[Asher]

I will respect your authoritay.

[Drake Tungsten]

Sweet.

[Drake Tungsten]

Biden: We Can't Recover All the Jobs Lost

Vice President Joe Biden gave a stark assessment of the economy today, telling an audience of supporters, "there's no possibility to restore 8 million jobs lost in the Great Recession."

Appearing at a fundraiser with Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wisc.) in Milwaukee, the vice president remarked that by the time he and President Obama took office in 2008, the gross domestic product had shrunk and hundreds of thousands of jobs had been lost.

"We inherited a godawful mess," he said, adding there was "no way to regenerate $3 trillion that was lost. Not misplaced, lost."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20008924-503544.html

[Hauldren Collider]

pwned

Depending on how you read that, he's either saying that the economy will never fully recover or stating the obvious, frequently denied fact that the recession has damaged our economy and there's no silver bullet time machine to erase everything that has happened.

Either way it's a gaffe.

[Drake Tungsten]

It's a Kinsleyan gaffe, which I wish there were more of in Washington. Telling the truth (even if inadvertently)...

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

This is consistent with the statements made earlier by this admin about the new norm. Now granted that was to readjust the expectations given the bold claims made earlier about the effectiveness of the stimulus.

The real issue is the amount of capital sitting on the sideline until this administration stops tampering and folks can undertand the new ground rules. The recovery has been interminably delayed by the administrations actions and uncertainty that results.

[Hauldren Collider]

It's a Kinsleyan gaffe, which I wish there were more of in Washington. Telling the truth (even if inadvertently)...

Yes I love those, and that is the kind of gaffe Biden usually makes

[Drake Tungsten]

This is consistent with the statements made earlier by this admin about the new norm.

If the Obama administration really believes that the lost jobs aren't coming back (i.e. this recession is the result of a permanent structural change in the American economy), why are they so dead set upon tossing hundreds of billions of stimulus dollars into the money pit to "create or save" jobs? Do they feel like they have to be seen doing something, even if they don't think it will actually achieve anything? Or is the stimulus really just an attempt to increase the scope of government and entrench Democratic special interests disguised as economic policy?

[Hauldren Collider]

Or is the stimulus really just an attempt to increase the scope of government and entrench Democratic special interests disguised as economic policy?

This was pretty clear from the get-go, wasn't it?

[giblets]

If the Obama administration really believes that the lost jobs aren't coming back (i.e. this recession is the result of a permanent structural change in the American economy), why are they so dead set upon tossing hundreds of billions of stimulus dollars into the money pit to "create or save" jobs?

Maybe some of the job losses are temporary, and some permanent. There's a middle ground between the government being powerless and the government being able to restore things to the way they were before the recession.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

This is consistent with the statements made earlier by this admin about the new norm.

If the Obama administration really believes that the lost jobs aren't coming back (i.e. this recession is the result of a permanent structural change in the American economy), why are they so dead set upon tossing hundreds of billions of stimulus dollars into the money pit to "create or save" jobs? Do they feel like they have to be seen doing something, even if they don't think it will actually achieve anything? Or is the stimulus really just an attempt to increase the scope of government and entrench Democratic special interests disguised as economic policy?

Good question(s). Regarding the permanent restructuring issue. The problem is the current direction calcifies the structural changes by embedding them into beuaracratic governmental entities. The mechanism to allow for necessary change to revitalize the underlying structure is via private sector growth.

As for why the directions of full steam ahead off the cliff, your guess is as good as mine. Could be that they understand deep down it is a failure and that the possible cynical reasons you give above are the drivers. The scarier (and one that I think more likely) proposition though is that Obama and his admin are an idealogically based organization and unwilling to be swayed by reality or facts. Ideologically blinkered memes have existed as long as people have held views. (If I had a dime for every "the reason why communism/capitalism/socialism (Favorite ism here) always fails is that it hasn't been truly been implemented thoroughly" arguement)

I doubt Biden is savvy enough to understand whether continuation and extension of the approach would be successful one way or the other. I think he is merely attempting to temper the expectations as he was put nominally in charge of the success of the stimulus package. ('nuff said on the competency of the stimulus program). In attempting to temper the expectations he instead delivered a typical Bidenism.

[Kidlicious]

To clarify, the Canadian banks wanted to do the same kind of **** the US banks were doing. Begged, even. The government refused to let them do it. Their profits were less in the good times, but they weren't nearly as vulnerable to the bottom falling out as the US ones were. Canadian banks were leveraged less and the "big five banks" were not allowed to merge to form megabanks which would facilitate the kind of large activity that got the US in a lot of trouble.

So in other words, the Canadian system isn't as corrupt, and maybe you all understand how stupid "too big to fail" is.

[Kidlicious]

This is consistent with the statements made earlier by this admin about the new norm. Now granted that was to readjust the expectations given the bold claims made earlier about the effectiveness of the stimulus.

The real issue is the amount of capital sitting on the sideline until this administration stops tampering and folks can undertand the new ground rules. The recovery has been interminably delayed by the administrations actions and uncertainty that results.

Nonsense. Capital is sitting on the sidelines because the economy is not recovering enough yet, not because of silly rules.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I am reminded of the addage "Don't get involved in chicken and egg discussions with bird brains."

[Kidlicious]

Oh well, you think discussions about supply and demand are like chicken and the egg discussions anyway. I would be wasting my time.