The Stimulus Is A Failure

[Kuciwalker]

Drake likes tax cuts for rich people. Not because he's rich and not because they work but because that's what his ideology says is the only thing to ever do in any situation no matter what the specifics of the situation are.

Really? I distinctly recall Drake claiming many, many times that his preference would be just extending unemployment benefits.

[Drake Tungsten]

I also advocated a payroll tax holiday toward the end of the stimulus debate.

[KrazyHorse]

I think it is pretty clear that the economy needs stimulating.

I agree. It's a shame that it's not happening.

How about a backdated tax on savings financing a per capita disbursement.

[Vanguard]

Both perfectly reasonable ideas.

But if hundreds of billions of dollars of road spending isn't stimulating the economy, it is a little hard to see how a few billion dollars of unemployment benefits will.

Similarly, a FICA holiday would only benefit those people with jobs, an increasingly small sector of the economy, who unfortunately have recently shown a tendency to pay down debt instead of spending money on goods or services.

What we really need is something that gets money to people who will spend it.

[Kuciwalker]

Both perfectly reasonable ideas.

But if hundreds of billions of dollars of road spending isn't stimulating the economy, it is a little hard to see how a few billion dollars of unemployment benefits will.

Because NONE OF THE ROAD FUNDING IS HAPPENING YET. None of that money is actually going to be spent for months. Unemployment benefits would obviously be spent right away.

You're doing a good job of not understanding anything anyone has said in this thread.

[KrazyHorse]

Not to mention the fact that road financing may or may not simply crowd out private investment. Construction's been hit pretty hard, but does road construction employ the same people and capital equipment as housing construction? Were these questions even asked?

[DinoDoc]

No.

[Aeson]

What we really need is something that gets money to people who will spend it.

$800bn of gift cards to local mall merchants distributed in public high schools

[KrazyHorse]

That's actually a really good idea.

[GePap]

Actual infrastructure spending is hardly the bulk of the bill. Was it even 20%?

There has been an extension of unemployment benefits, an increase in food stamps, cash assitance to poor families, and direct aid to State Budgets. Most of that money will start rolling soon, once all the applications are done.

As I said, here in NY for example tens of thousand of public sector workers were not fired due to the expected stimulus funds, which is the most significant effect I have seen form the Stimulus in NY. Once the money actually starts getting spent, we will see what it does.

As for debit cards, nice idea but ripe of corruption - think about it, for it to have been effective, it would have to have used some of the existing debit card and credit car systems out there - so which company gets the $800Billion contract? Mastercard, Visa, AMEX? And what about stores not equiped to use the system chosen?

[Jon Miller]

There is supposedly more post doc positions due to the stimulus.

I haven't really seen them yet though.

JM

[Jon Miller]

There is supposedly more post doc positions due to the stimulus.

I haven't really seen them yet though.

JM

[GePap]

Not to mention the fact that road financing may or may not simply crowd out private investment. Construction's been hit pretty hard, but does road construction employ the same people and capital equipment as housing construction? Were these questions even asked?

Who the hell was going to be putting money into housing construction these last few months? Hell, in the next six months?

[Ramo]

I'm pretty sure that school construction/repair (which would definitely use similar kinds of capital/labor) is somewhat larger than funds allocated to roads.

[Ramo]

Actual infrastructure spending is hardly the bulk of the bill. Was it even 20%?

There has been an extension of unemployment benefits, an increase in food stamps, cash assitance to poor families, and direct aid to State Budgets. Most of that money will start rolling soon, once all the applications are done.

And the FICA cut. Infrastructure is indeed a comparatively small portion of the stimulus.

It turns out that Drake-style "centrists" like Ben Nelson were instrumental in reducing the more stimulative portions in the legislation (i.e. plugging up state/local budgets to allow them to meet payroll), and right wing Republicans like Rick Perry are blocking the funding associated with the largest fiscal multiplier (unemployment insurance).