The Stimulus Is A Failure

[Kuciwalker]

There was no expectation on anyones part within government that these dollars were going to be getting spent in the Spring.

Did you even glance at the OP?

[GePap]

There was no expectation on anyones part within government that these dollars were going to be getting spent in the Spring.

Did you even glance at the OP?

The OP is a troll, and I treat it as such.

If the argument is that the administration was overly optimistic in its projections of employment figures, with or without, well, that is a different argument.

Of course, an even greater increase in unemployment than projected would make the NEED for stimulus even MORE severe, since the higher the uneployment rate gets, the harder it is to get out of the slump without some immese and long-term pain. Heck, it took six years for unemployemnt to go back down after the recession of 1980 and the followup of 81-82.

[Kuciwalker]

If the argument is that the administration was overly optimistic in its projections of employment figures, with or without, well, that is a different argument.

No, the argument is that the administration believed, or at least claimed to believe, the stimulus would actually take into effect in Q2 2009. As you say, only "trolls or [people who have] no ****ing clue how government works" would say that.

[Riesstiu IV]

This thread has stimulated my package.

[GePap]

If the argument is that the administration was overly optimistic in its projections of employment figures, with or without, well, that is a different argument.

No, the argument is that the administration believed, or at least claimed to believe, the stimulus would actually take into effect in Q2 2009. As you say, only "trolls or [people who have] no ****ing clue how government works" would say that.

From other thread:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/06/bu...6jobs.html?hpw

Hints of Hope Even as Jobless Rate Jumps to 9.4%

GOODMAN and JACK HEALY
Published: June 5, 2009

The American economy shed 345,000 jobs in May, and the unemployment rate spiked to 9.4 percent, but the losses were far smaller than anticipated, amplifying hopes of recovery.

UnemploymentEconomists described the Labor Department’s monthly jobs report, released Friday, as an unambiguous sign of improvement, yet also clear evidence of broadening national distress, as millions of households grapple with joblessness and lost working hours.

Well, look at that.

And if you note on the chart provided with the Obama estimate, even the one with the stimulus, it has unemployment peaking in the Third quarter of this year.

Were their estimates far too hopefull? Yes. Has the stimulus failed? Sorry, question is still out.

[Kuciwalker]

OK, so when you said "anyone who thought the Stimulus was supposed to have any real effect this Federal fiscal year is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works.", were you being a troll, or did you just have no ****ing clue how government worked? Because you seem to be arguing now that the statement was dead wrong.

[GePap]

See other thread.

[Straybow]

No, you retards. The money hasn't been spent. It's been appropriated but not spent yet. It rolls out over a long period of time and will not be completed for over a year. It's not like the government just wrote a $825 billion check and handed it to the stimulus fairy in January and the fairy ran away with it without giving us our stimulus back.

Wiglaf
"You're a ******"
--Wiglaf

Well, then it isn't really a stimulus, is it?

It's just plain, old, ordinary, run-of-the-mill, unfunded spending: another way of saying pork and waste. Which is what all who opposed it said months ago.

[GePap]

Well, then it isn't really a stimulus, is it?

It's just plain, old, ordinary, run-of-the-mill, unfunded spending: another way of saying pork and waste. Which is what all who opposed it said months ago.

How hard is it to understand?

It has been appropriated. Not yet spent. If anything, it is slow going because of all the controls placed to minimize corruption and waste, which is exactly what would happen if the government just started spending without oversight.

but I guess that is beyond your ability to grasp.

[Dinner]

I remember loads of people, myself included, saying the stimulus package was to small and contained to many tax cuts which had little stimulative effect. Just about every major creditable economist in the country has said that.

It's important to remember that Republicans were deliberately trying to sabotage the stimulus package by pushing to make it smaller, by removing actual stimulus where ever possible, and larding it up with tax cuts instead of real stimulus which would actually put people directly to work. For Republicans like Drake, and don't give us the fake "I'm an independent" speech Drake, it is extremely hypocritical to sabotage the stimulus bill on one hand then to declare it unsuccessful when they're the ones who made it less then ideally successful.

[Dinner]

How hard is it to understand?

It has been appropriated. Not yet spent. If anything, it is slow going because of all the controls placed to minimize corruption and waste, which is exactly what would happen if the government just started spending without oversight.

but I guess that is beyond your ability to grasp.

Why bother? Honestly, it's like talking to a brick wall. He's deliberately being obtuse.

[Drake Tungsten]

We know why the stimulus is failing. That doesn't change the fact that it is.

Yes. The sad part is that we knew the stimulus would fail for these reasons before it was approved, but Congress passed it anyway. It's a regrettable and perfectly predictable waste of hundreds of billions of dollars.

[Vanguard]

I think it is pretty clear that the economy needs stimulating.

If you don't like road building, what do you prefer?

[Dinner]

Drake likes tax cuts for rich people. Not because he's rich and not because they work but because that's what his ideology says is the only thing to ever do in any situation no matter what the specifics of the situation are.

[Drake Tungsten]

I think it is pretty clear that the economy needs stimulating.

I agree. It's a shame that it's not happening.