[Legal] Do you feel this is abuse of system or upholding due process of the law?

[Kuciwalker]

This all seems completely reasonable to me. As long as there is a chance she could get off [i.e., as long as she is still appealing the case] it's fine that they can't decide "well, we think she's guilty".

[Zevico]

How so?

He's saying it's abuse of the system on her part, but also upholding due process of the law (so far as courts are concerned).

[Grandpa Troll]

He's saying it's abuse of the system on her part, but also upholding due process of the law (so far as courts are concerned).

Ok,

Im also torn, because while convicted, she does have her right of appeal.

I am however, leaning toward "holding" any further pay pending outcome of legal process having run its course.

Then again, say a person is indeed wrongfully convicted and put away, she may need the money to pay bills or support family.

Tough call, but even those who seem beyond a reasonable doubt to be guilty may end up an innocent victim of an imperfect system.


Gramps

[Jon Miller]

I would say put a limitation on it.

Like one year or two years or something.

JM

[Kuciwalker]

JM: how is that consistent at all with any reasonable sense of justice?

So if you are unjustly convicted but your appeals drag on, the money cuts off?

[KrazyHorse]

The lesson here is that tenure for elementary and high school teachers is ****ing retarded.

[Kuciwalker]

That too.

[Lul Thyme]

He's saying it's abuse of the system on her part, but also upholding due process of the law (so far as courts are concerned).

I'm not necessarily saying I believe this.

I was simply saying there's certainly nothing illogical about someone having this opinion and hence the title is extremely over-simplistic.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

enticing a child by electronic means

Interesting phrasing on that law...

[Jon Miller]

JM: how is that consistent at all with any reasonable sense of justice?

So if you are unjustly convicted but your appeals drag on, the money cuts off?

You aren't working. If you win the appeal then you get a civil suit... but probably after a couple years of getting paid without working I doubt that you would get anything.

I mean, look every other place where the possibility of getting unjustly fired comes up. There, the accused doesn't get anything unless they win some arbitration.

JM

[Zkribbler]

The lesson here is that tenure for elementary and high school teachers is ****ing retarded.

Right. We want teachers who have proven the worth for ten or even twenty years to be put into a situation of being fired because they refused to pick up the principal's dry cleaning!

[DinoDoc]

Right. We want teachers who have proven the worth for ten or even twenty years to be put into a situation of being fired because they refused to pick up the principal's dry cleaning!

Thinking principal's are itching to fire qualified teachers for such specious reasons is stupid. Here's a listing of the problems with giving teachers at that level tenure:

Firing tenured teachers can be a costly and tortuous task

The eighth-grade boy held out his wrists for teacher Carlos Polanco to see.

He had just explained to Polanco and his history classmates at Virgil Middle School in Koreatown why he had been absent: He had been in the hospital after an attempt at suicide.

Polanco looked at the cuts and said they "were weak," according to witness accounts in documents filed with the state. "Carve deeper next time," he was said to have told the boy.

"Look," Polanco allegedly said, "you can't even kill yourself."

The boy's classmates joined in, with one advising how to cut a main artery, according to the witnesses.


"See," Polanco was quoted as saying, "even he knows how to commit suicide better than you."

The Los Angeles school board, citing Polanco's poor judgment, voted to fire him.

But Polanco, who contended that he had been misunderstood, kept his job. A little-known review commission overruled the board, saying that although the teacher had made the statements, he had meant no harm.
...

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-teachers3-2009may03,0,679507.story

[Solomwi]

Slowwy's right. The alternative would be for the courts to speculate and effectively create their own exception to a rule devised by the Alabaman legislature.


Judicial activism

If the article's accurate about the law, Slowwy's wrong, and doing as he suggests would be the courts speculating and effectively creating their own exception to a rule devised by the legislature. As described, the law provides for an appealing teacher to be paid timely through the appeal, and without regard to outcome. Slowwy's solution conditions payment on outcome and defers it until after that is known.

That said, the legislature down here is owned by Paul Hubbert and the teachers' union, so (a) it's not surprising that this situation would arise here, and (b) any thought of rewriting the law is a pipe dream.

[KrazyHorse]

Right. We want teachers who have proven the worth for ten or even twenty years to be put into a situation of being fired because they refused to pick up the principal's dry cleaning!

Welcome to the real world, dimwit.

I see no reason why teachers should be any different than any other group of workers. If they're in an at-will state then this is the situation. If they're not, then the employer must show cause.

The reason for university profs to have tenure is to give them academic freedom in exploring unpopular ideas. High school and elementary school teachers are not assumed to, and DO NOT have that same academic freedom, so why the **** are they given tenure? It's ****ing retarded.

By the way, my mother is a kindergarten teacher. She has a bachelor's degree in psychology from a third tier university. She has about 17-18 years of experience, and makes 74000$ a year. Because she has tenure, they are unable to fire her despite the fact that she costs a ridiculous amount to pay and has no idea how to use any of the new technology that other teachers are expected to use. Teachers with 5 years experience with, say, a bachelor's degree in mathematics who teach grade 12 calculus make less than half of what she makes because the teacher's union has prevented the government from "discriminating" by pay among different university fields of study and the people who run the teacher's union are those with 10-15 years of experience or more. The result is, of course, that the school system is constantly starved for teachers with qualifications in the sciences and is overwhelmed with applicants with degrees in low-paying fields like the arts.

Teacher's unions are pieces of ****.

[Lul Thyme]

Right. We want teachers who have proven the worth for ten or even twenty years to be put into a situation of being fired because they refused to pick up the principal's dry cleaning!

Are you suggesting any "normal" job should have something like tenure?
Otherwise, what makes elementary school teachers different?