Who Will The Democrats Select In 2012?

[GePap]

Sorry, the troll is as unfunny as it is uneducated.

[Kuciwalker]

Oh?

No, this is why anyone who thought the Stimulus was supposed to have any real effect this Federal fiscal year is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works.

So, Obama economic team members put out numbers saying that the unemployment rate with the recovery plan would diverge from the unemployment rate without it as soon as Q2 2009, i.e. around now. So, by your logic, they are either trolls o have no ****ing clue how government works.

YOU LOSE.

[Kuciwalker]

Seriously, if Obama promised to have the clerics would be 'regime-changed' out of power next week, next Saturday would you be posting "shut up trolls the troops haven't even gotten there yet".

[GePap]

Oh?
So, Obama economic team members put out numbers saying that the unemployment rate with the recovery plan would diverge from the unemployment rate without it as soon as Q2 2009, i.e. around now. So, by your logic, they are either trolls o have no ****ing clue how government works.

YOU LOSE.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/06/business/economy/06jobs.html?hpw

Hints of Hope Even as Jobless Rate Jumps to 9.4%

GOODMAN and JACK HEALY
Published: June 5, 2009

The American economy shed 345,000 jobs in May, and the unemployment rate spiked to 9.4 percent, but the losses were far smaller than anticipated, amplifying hopes of recovery.

UnemploymentEconomists described the Labor Department’s monthly jobs report, released Friday, as an unambiguous sign of improvement, yet also clear evidence of broadening national distress, as millions of households grapple with joblessness and lost working hours.

Well, look at that.

And if you note on the chart provided with the Obama estimate, even the one with the stimulus, it has unemployment peaking in the Third quarter of this year.

Were their estimates far too hopefull? Yes. Has the stimulus failed? Sorry, question is still out.

[Kuciwalker]

Well, look at that.

Oh? Are you claiming now that the stimulus is taking effect? So you should update the quote to something like: "Anyone who thought the Stimulus was supposed to have any real effect this Federal fiscal year is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works... or was actually correct."

And if you note on the chart provided with the Obama estimate, even the one with the stimulus, it has unemployment peaking in the Third quarter of this year.

Were their estimates far too hopefull? Yes. Has the stimulus failed? Sorry, question is still out.

Yeah, but least we know the Obama economic team is full of trolls and incompetents.

[GePap]

Well, look at that.

Oh? Are you claiming now that the stimulus is taking effect? So you should update the quote to something like: "Anyone who thought the Stimulus was supposed to have any real effect this Federal fiscal year is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works... or was actually correct."

As of Feb. I heard the NYS Commissioner of Labor (and this is as the stimulus package was close to passage) estimate that by the end of the year unemployment in NY (which has been lagging behind the national average) would hit 10-11%. Other stimulus projects I have done some work on weren't expecting to have their money allocated until July, and even the first infrastructure programs to have funding announced started only in late April, early May (those were the shovel ready).

I don't really care what the Obama team put out as their public figures, I only care about the actual point - has the stimulus failed or not. Given that most money has not been spent, I will again say, judgement is to be reserved.

Yeah, but least we know the Obama economic team is full of trolls and incompetents.

Well, with the likes of Larry Summers and the disciples of Rob Rubin, I am not going to argue on that point.

[Kuciwalker]

I don't really care what the Obama team put out as their public figures, I only care about the actual point - has the stimulus failed or not. Given that most money has not been spent, I will again say, judgement is to be reserved.

Given that the goal of the stimulus was to aggressively stimulate the economy right about now, according to you it's failed. Kind of like the argument that we failed in Iraq and Vietnam because our goals weren't met...

[GePap]

[q]

Given that the goal of the stimulus was to aggressively stimulate the economy right about now, according to you it's failed. Kind of like the argument that we failed in Iraq and Vietnam because our goals weren't met...

According to me? What the **** are you talking about? The goal of the stiumulus is to stimulate the economy and stop and reverse the loss of jobs. Whether that happens in Q2 or Q3 is irrelevant to anything but the troll about the Obama estimates. As for the rest of your statement, We obviously did fail in Vietnam (last time I checked, there is only one Vietnamese government and it is communist) and after 6 years we still haven't gotten our main goal of a 'stable and democratic' Iraq.

[Kuciwalker]

According to me? What the **** are you talking about?

Your claim that there's no way the stimulus would take effect this federal fiscal year...

[GePap]

First, cute lie in your signature.

Second, and lastly - I don't care about defending the estimates by Obama - I care about whether economic stimulus funding has effect. Given how little stimulus money has been spent, it is hard to attribute much to it yet. I know at least here in NY thousands weren't laid off in expectation of the stiumulus funding, not by the actual spending of it, which hasn't happened. If someone wants to count that as the stimulus working, let them. My beef is with what I see as the troll from that graph that the stimulus can be judged as a failure.

[Kuciwalker]

First, cute lie in your signature.

Oh? Obama and his team didn't [claim to] believe "the stimulus was supposed to have any real effect this Federal fiscal year"? Despite all the claims to be picking "shovel-ready" projects? I remember claims back in February that they would be able to start spending money within a month or two.

[Darius871]

Kuci, ironic as GePap's statement may have been, don't you see the huge difference between "the Obama economic team was wrong about when the stimulus package would begin to take effect" and "the stimulus is a failure"? Even GePap openly conceded that at least the former is true.

[Kuciwalker]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5614433&postcount=27

[GePap]

First, cute lie in your signature.

Oh? Obama and his team didn't [claim to] believe "the stimulus was supposed to have any real effect this Federal fiscal year"? Despite all the claims to be picking "shovel-ready" projects? I remember claims back in February that they would be able to start spending money within a month or two.

They did start spending money in April and May -small amounts of money (several hundreds of millions perhaps) out of the entirety of the pot. Whether they actually believed that spending a few hundred million would make a huge impact on unemployment and slowing down the economic free-fall, well, they aren't here to answer, now are they?

One thing I did get wrong - I believed that Fiscal 09-10 for the Feds began June 1, but its actually October 1, according to Wiki. So we are now in Q3 of Fiscal 08-09, as opposed to Q1 of 09-10. Damn these confusing budget years (NYC budget year begins June 1, NYS budget year April 1).

[GePap]

http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost....3&postcount=27

1. The Economy hasn't bottemed out yet, only slowed its decent as far as we know.

2. Even when it bottoms out, there is no evidence that private investement would do anything but flatline. Stimulus money is meant to not only stop a fall, but to get the economy back rolling.

Wow, who would see Drake being wrong?