Alabama's education ranking, explained

[rah]

I don't see why you would do that.

I guess that's the difference between us. I'm more of a sucker when people do me a favor. It's a weakness that I don't have a problem with.

[KrazyHorse]

He's not doing you a favour. He's attempting to prey on people's goodwill in order to get paid for very little effort on his part.

[OzzyKP]

It doesn't really seem to matter how much effort he put in. Whether it takes 30 seconds or 5 hours, there is a thousand bucks that Arrian didn't know about before that he can now collect. I agree 10% seems like too much, but rah is right, toss a few bucks his way and say thanks.

[KrazyHorse]

Arrian didn't ask him to do this service for him. Therefore, as far as I can tell Arrian is under no moral or legal imperative to give this guy anything.

I don't pay people who squeegee my windows unbidden on the street either (even if the window needed cleaning).

[rah]

Again that's the difference between us. I realize there was no legal imperative, but I would feel a moral one. And yes 10% would be too much, but something less is better than nothing.

[KrazyHorse]

Seriously, I have no idea why anybody would feel like they should send this guy anything at all, unless they actually write him back and ask for more information. In that case, even with no legally binding contract I would likely pay the man's 10%.

The same with tipping waitresses in a restaurant (for argument's sake, one which is in a different city which I will never visit again). Although there is no legal requirement to tip, I enter the restaurant and order of my own free will, and both parties have the expectation that my receipt of service will be paid for with a reasonable tip, depending on how satisfied I am with that service. When somebody provides a service to me without my asking hoping to be paid when they've finished then I feel no urge to pay them. They are not doing me a favour. They're attempting to force me into their debt.

[KrazyHorse]

Again that's the difference between us. I realize there was no legal imperative, but I would feel a moral one. And yes 10% would be too much, but something less is better than nothing.

The moral imperative appears when I agree to their provision of a service (as in entering a restaurant). Not simply because they provide a service (no matter how valuable to me).

If I come home and my walkway is shoveled of snow with a note asking for 5$ then there is no way in hell I will pay.

[Lorizael]

If this guys wants people to pay him, he should set up a website where he advertises his services to those that wish to make use of them.

[rah]

I always have a problem when the tip is added to the bill. Since I tip well for good service, they usually lose money by forcing me to tip since I feel like they don't have to provide good service since they've already negotiated the tip. For the record, tipping well usually gets me more in return in freebies so besides making me feel better it pays off. I have had too many jobs where tips were a large part of my pay, so as a result I tend to tip very well when warrented.

[KrazyHorse]

Exactly. Except nobody would actually pay him because instead they would simply go to

http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/comp/refunds/

and type in their last name

As I've never had a mortgage, I'm not on the list, but 14 other people with my last name are. Should I write all of them?

[rah]

If I come home and my walkway is shoveled of snow with a note asking for 5$ then there is no way in hell I will pay.

Agreed 100%, but if it was the neighbor kid and he didn't leave a note, I'd probably slip him a fin and thank him.

And even though he didn't solicit this guy to find the information for him, it was a grand that he wouldn't have known about. That would create the moral obligation to me. At least for a few bucks.

[KrazyHorse]

Agreed 100%, but if it was the neighbor kid and he didn't leave a note

But this guy did "leave the note". He asked for 10%.

And, by the way, I tip very well in general. 20-25% for low-end restaurants/pubs. 15-20% for high-end restaurants. More or less depending on the level of service. Again, this is because I enter with full understanding of the implicit agreement between myself and the staff of the restaurant.

[rah]

I totally understand where you're coming from.
And I wouldn't feel obligated to give him 10%

And if you think I was insinuating that you're a lousy tipper, that was not my intention and I apologize. I was just trying to explain how I got to be the way I am. As ming and I always remind each other. It costs nothing to be nice, and while we never expect anything in return we usually get it returned many fold.

[Lul Thyme]

Arrian didn't ask him to do this service for him. Therefore, as far as I can tell Arrian is under no moral or legal imperative to give this guy anything.

I don't pay people who squeegee my windows unbidden on the street either (even if the window needed cleaning).

You certainly don't have to, but it's not that clear that your proposition is"the correct thing to do".

Even from a game theory point of view, it's not clear that this is the best "greedy" strategy. You could imagine that the people offering these types of services form an organization, put you in a blacklist after you don't cooperate and, in the long run, your "strategy" is worse than if you had paid back a fraction of what you net each time you cooperate.

Of course, in practice, such a well-organized group doesn't exist, but the same thing can happen in less straightforward ways. It's not unimaginable that somehow, if arrian is greedy now, he might lose on a further opportunity and be at a net loss. Hell, the same guy who made the offer might be aware of a few other ways Arrian could get money and is using this one as a test.

In short, if you make it worth it for someone to help you, you just might get more help in the future. I guess that's what some people call karma.


I'm not saying everybody should start paying squeegees, I just don't think it's as clear-cut as you make it to be.

[KrazyHorse]

And if you think I was insinuating that you're a lousy tipper, that was not my intention and I apologize. I was just trying to explain how I got to be the way I am. As ming and I always remind each other. It costs nothing to be nice, and while we never expect anything in return we usually get it returned many fold.

Take it easy, man. I wasn't offended. I was just trying to explain my position. Specifically that although there is no legal imperative in the tipping case I think there is a moral one. However when provided a service which I have not consented to I have no feeling at all that this is the case.