Socialism No Longer Has Negative Connotation

[Elok]

Eh, when I hear "socialism," I think of one of those quiet, pleasantly boring Euro-states with enormous income taxes and free everything. Probably wouldn't work for America, being at odds with our national character and all, but it's hardly terrible. Why don't they just say "communism," which is scarier?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Still a definition of who is a good 'Italian', even if he eschewed explicitly using race as a criteria.

I can quote you:

that Fascism is based on race

So... basically all that above was supposed to be... "I was wrong"?

[Imran Siddiqui]

in National Socialism, inside there is some sort of solidarity, comradeship and such among the members of the state.

Also in theoretical Fascism.

The difference becomes quite obvious when you look at how military units were led in each, for example.

So the Germans had a vastly different military unit structure than the Spanish or Italians?

[Felch]

Fasces, the symbol the word fascism is derived from, was a bundle of sticks tied together as a symbol of power and authority. E pluribus unum is in that sense a fascist creed. When Papa Smurf taught the other smurfs that one stick breaks easily, but many sticks are harder to break, he was teaching them fascism.

But that's not the fascism that we're talking about here. It seems like everybody is using whatever definition they feel like.

I don't know. I'm right now.

[Sandman]

Fascist states emerged from capitalist states, but that does not mean fascism is a form of capitalism. If I start a new religion that converts existing churches into temples, it doesn't mean my religion is a form of a Christianity.

[Velociryx]

Communism's philosophy and Communism's reality are two different things.

Fixed.

-=Vel=-

[Unimatrix11]

...
So the Germans had a vastly different military unit structure than the Spanish or Italians?

The german commanders would, for example, share rations with their troops.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Wasn't aware of that.

So German Fascism seemed to be more "everyone of the German nation is in it together" than the Italian or Spanish.

[chequita guevara]

I don't think we should try to understand Nazism by looking at the German military. As much as possible, it tried to keep itself free from the Nazis.

[chequita guevara]

Fascist states emerged from capitalist states, but that does not mean fascism is a form of capitalism. If I start a new religion that converts existing churches into temples, it doesn't mean my religion is a form of a Christianity.

It doesn't mean it isn't, either. Protestantism emerged from Catholicism, that doesn't mean Protestants weren't Christian.

Fascism isn't a different economic system. It is the most extreme, most reactionary form of capitalism. It is capitalism that is a cornered, wounded animal and is attempting to survive by any means necessary.

[BeBMan]

It doesn't mean it isn't, either. Protestantism emerged from Catholicism, that doesn't mean Protestants weren't Christian.

Fascism isn't a different economic system. It is the most extreme, most reactionary form of capitalism. It is capitalism that is a cornered, wounded animal and is attempting to survive by any means necessary.

That's the usual communist interpretation, often to justify a communist teleology where cap is getting evar more bad, ending in fascism etc then com takes over. Another one is to associate cap with free enterprise and markets, then fascism is not (or not necessarily) a form of cap, because it hadn't much to do with the Smith-invisible-hand-thingie....

[chequita guevara]

That's the usual communist interpretation, often to justify a communist teleology where cap is getting evar more bad, ending in fascism etc then com takes over. Another one is to associate cap with free enterprise and markets, then fascism is not (or not necessarily) a form of cap, because it hadn't much to do with the Smith-invisible-hand-thingie....

There are two different communist interpretations of fascism. One is Stalinist, one is Trotskyist. Neither have anything to do with capitalism merely being free enterprise. That's the libertarian view.

The Stalinists were the ones who believed that fascism would be unable to solve its crisis, which would then lead to communism. "First Hitler, then us." The German Communist Party died because of that sort of lazy analysis. Trotskyists weren't all that sure about fascism's long term survival, but that was more due to the belief that the coming war would result in revolution (as had the previous world war).

Keep in mind, however, that Fascism had only been in power in one country, and for less than a decade, at the point that commies of all stripes were trying to analyze it and make predictions. They simply didn't have enough data at the time to have a full and accurate understanding of the phenomenon, like scientists who need much more data points in order to know whether an asteroid will or will not strike the Earth.

[BeBMan]

That's the libertarian view.

Yup, I didn't say the other is com. The point is that the com pov I described is just a pov, not a fact.

[chequita guevara]

It's a theory, which we think best supports the facts.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Neither have anything to do with capitalism merely being free enterprise. That's the libertarian view.

Or the Classic Liberal view. You know, the folks who came up with the damned thing.