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Differences Between US and European (Continental) Retail Banking

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  • Differences Between US and European (Continental) Retail Banking

    By retail banking I mean banking services oriented towards people and I emphasize continental because I am familiar with it although UK system may be similar.

    Taken from here: http://www-math.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/us-d.html

    The [US]banking system is archaic. It appears as if banks are not electronically connected at all (even though they are). It is not possible to instruct your bank to pay your rent every month directly into the landlord's account (the usual method in Germany). Every month, you have to write out a check, send it physically to your landlord, who carries it physically to his bank, which sends it physically back to your bank in order to get the money. Banks tell you to keep your account number secret, but it is openly printed on every check, along with your name and address. Some banks now offer "bill paying services"; this only means that *they* will mail the check to your landlord instead. Another new system, heralded as a huge achievement, is "Direct Deposit" or "Automatic Payment". It allows to make regular payments such as salary, insurance or utility payments directly without checks. It does not work between private accounts and it takes about 2 months to set up. (In Germany, it takes no time to set up a plan like that; you instruct your bank and then it works.)
    Many US banks now offer "Internet banking" and claim to be on the technological forefront. All you can do with these services is move money from your checking account into a savings or investment account, check your balance and find out which checks have cleared. Almost all these site use a completely insecure static user/password login scheme; virtually all internet banks in Europe use one-time passwords or cryptographic challenge-response systems.
    Merchants in the US accept checks, which of course can be trivially abused; German merchants only accept secured checks.
    You will actually see Americans write out checks at super market checkout counters, and many people set aside an afternoon every month for "balancing their checkbook" and "paying the bills", two activities that nobody has even heard of in Germany.
    In Germany, checks are not used to pay bills. You simply instruct your bank to transfer the money into the payee's account on a regular basis, or give permission to the payee to suck the money out of your account.




    Nobody writes checks here any more. Is the US system really that archaic?

    Even if not it seems to me that retail banking in Europe is much more comprehensive (all-in-one service) than in the US. I'll add some thoughts to the above quote, feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

    - there are no separate entities known as "mortgage brokers" here, banks do their own real estate handling, which means they take your application, check your creditworthiness, send a person to estimate the value of the property, approve the loan and then see it through to maturity

    - there is no personal bankrupcy here and when you take up a loan, you commonly guarantee it with everything you have, forever. For example, you can't "walk away from a house" if the prices drop, since the bank will not only take the house, but also sit on all your accounts and take any money that appears there until they get their money back

    - banks are completely networked and we have a compulsory ID system, this means that you can't disappear for a period and then open a new account with a different name in another bank

    - credit history is maintained by a single inter-bank joint company, not many companies like in the US

    - internet banking is always used with mandatory cryptographic "tokens" which renders it both safe and tedious

    - banks do payment clearing electronically a couple of times a day, you can pay something to someone's account in another bank over the internet and it will appear on their account balance in a couple of hours

    - there is no such thing as specialization here, all banks do everything. The same bank in which I have my checking account to which my salary is paid by my employer also issues credit cards, has its own stock exchange brokerage, has its own various investment funds, pension funds, savings programmes, sells insurance, works with both companies and individuals (and governments), gives loans for everything from mining equipment to PCs or education, underwrites bond and stock issues, serves as money exchanger... they do basically everything related to money. It's scary.

  • #2
    That article sounds like bunk for me. It certainly does not apply to Canada.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • #3
      Originally posted by VetLegion View Post
      Nobody writes checks here any more. Is the US system really that archaic?
      When I was in my old apartment, I would pay my rent by check.

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      • #4
        It's been many, many years since I've written a cheque. I receive them sometimes in the form of mail-in rebate responses.

        My rent payments are direct withdrawals from my account. My salary is a direct deposit into my account.

        Virtually every other payment I ever make goes through my no-fee credit card (I never carry a balance either, I just use it for convenience and to rack up the points). I don't even need to sign the receipt anymore in most places I go to -- I just tap the thing on the PayPass pad and wave. I go to the ATM once every couple months and withdraw $100 because I rarely use cash, even.

        When I need to transfer money to a friend, I do that online as well.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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        • #5
          In the past I had to use checks to pay my rent. No longer...

          JM
          Jon Miller-
          I AM.CANADIAN
          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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          • #6
            Mostly the quote in the OP is how it was 4 or 5 years ago. Nowadays, I write one check a month -- to the cleaning lady. Also, people in the US use their credit cards all the time, such that they have less occasion to set up payments.

            Keep in mind that the US has a massive, massive number of banks (over 8,000) compared to Europe and Canada. It's tougher to manage some of this stuff because of this. But the competition is very healthy.

            Originally posted by VetLegion View Post
            It is not possible to instruct your bank to pay your rent every month directly into the landlord's account (the usual method in Germany).
            Not quite true. You instruct your landlord to deduct from your bank account. Send the landlord a voided check to set it up.

            Every month, you have to write out a check, send it physically to your landlord, who carries it physically to his bank, which sends it physically back to your bank in order to get the money.
            They just pass the check images bank-to-bank nowadays. It has been this way for 3 or 4 years, IIRC.

            Another new system, heralded as a huge achievement, is "Direct Deposit" or "Automatic Payment". It allows to make regular payments such as salary, insurance or utility payments directly without checks.
            This isn't new. It's been around for years.

            Many US banks now offer "Internet banking" and claim to be on the technological forefront. All you can do with these services is move money from your checking account into a savings or investment account, check your balance and find out which checks have cleared.
            They also have images of your checks and allow you to do a limited number of other things.

            Merchants in the US accept checks, which of course can be trivially abused;
            Of course, they can be abused. But usually aren't.

            - there are no separate entities known as "mortgage brokers" here, banks do their own real estate handling, which means they take your application, check your creditworthiness, send a person to estimate the value of the property, approve the loan and then see it through to maturity
            This is not quite true. F.e., my brother works for mortgage brokers in Munich.

            - there is no personal bankrupcy here and when you take up a loan, you commonly guarantee it with everything you have, forever. For example, you can't "walk away from a house" if the prices drop, since the bank will not only take the house, but also sit on all your accounts and take any money that appears there until they get their money back
            That's awful. Primitive.

            - there is no such thing as specialization here, all banks do everything. The same bank in which I have my checking account to which my salary is paid by my employer also issues credit cards, has its own stock exchange brokerage, has its own various investment funds, pension funds, savings programmes, sells insurance, works with both companies and individuals (and governments), gives loans for everything from mining equipment to PCs or education, underwrites bond and stock issues, serves as money exchanger... they do basically everything related to money. It's scary.
            Banks here offer that stuff too. However, often they distribute products from other companies. E.g., the local Citibank may offer life insurance products from AIG. Mostly, this is a vestige of the Glass-Steagall Act, which was passed in the wake of the Great Crash and Depression and separated banking, investment banking, and insurance. Glass-Steagall was repealed about 10 years ago. The recent banking crisis forced the investment banks to begin to take deposits, although they still have 2 years to go back to their previous form.
            Last edited by DanS; April 8, 2009, 22:28.
            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Asher View Post
              That article sounds like bunk for me. It certainly does not apply to Canada.
              It is bunk. Just about every bank has auto payment options as well as online bill pay.
              Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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              • #8
                Woah. Sending images of checks? I've thought that's what Fedwire is for - wire transfers between accounts in different banks.
                Graffiti in a public toilet
                Do not require skill or wit
                Among the **** we all are poets
                Among the poets we are ****.

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                • #9
                  That's awful. Primitive.


                  While I think it's ridiculous that bankruptcy doesn't exist, I also find it ridiculous that home loans in the US are non-recourse. So I can have millions of dollars in assets, buy a home with 10% down, watch the price drop like a rock and walk away from my obligations. There's no particular reason to believe that forcing (by law) mortgages to contain an embedded put option on the house has any real positive effects.
                  12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                  Stadtluft Macht Frei
                  Killing it is the new killing it
                  Ultima Ratio Regum

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                  • #10
                    Keeping people out of bankruptcy?
                    (\__/)
                    (='.'=)
                    (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                    • #11
                      I only use checks for my car payment, but I only do that so I can somewhat control which paycheck it comes out of, rather than it just coming out the 1st of each month.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                        Keeping people out of bankruptcy?
                        Why is it positive to keep people who speculate on housing out of bankruptcy?
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by VetLegion View Post


                          Nobody writes checks here any more.
                          In PNG everything is done by cheque or cash.

                          There is no electronic banking system to speak of.

                          On pay fortnight I sign over 600 cheques, which are then taken to the bank and deposited into our employee's accounts, or cashed for them.

                          It sucks.

                          I don't know why he saved my life. Maybe in those last moments he loved life more than he ever had before. Not just his life - anybody's life, my life. All he'd wanted were the same answers the rest of us want. Where did I come from? Where am I going? How long have I got? All I could do was sit there and watch him die.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                            Why is it positive to keep people who speculate on housing out of bankruptcy?
                            You are the fan of transferring risk to those able to bear it.

                            I think the current situation is a very good example of why there are no-recourse mortgages. Anyone who's lived through a major bust can tell you why.
                            (\__/)
                            (='.'=)
                            (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nugog View Post
                              In PNG everything is done by cheque or cash.

                              There is no electronic banking system to speak of.

                              On pay fortnight I sign over 600 cheques, which are then taken to the bank and deposited into our employee's accounts, or cashed for them.

                              It sucks.

                              This is why I laugh at you every time you brag about that ****hole of a country.
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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