Plague of Somali pirates continues. 5 ships taken over the weekend.

[KrazyHorse]

Not to mention the fact that this vessel was seized FAR outside even the exclusive economic zone of Somalia (if they had the power to enforce this zone, which they do not).

The failure of Somalia to effectively police fishing off its coast is ITS OWN FAILURE. It is not the responsibility of the world to protect the Somalian fisheries. It is also the responsibility of Somalia to police against piracy. They are failing at that as well (and some parts of the political power structure are actually complicit in it). So **** them. We will police against piracy for them. And if I had my way, we would police against piracy by destroying every single boat in every single village which is a source of pirates until the message was sent.

[Wezil]

people that don't think cellphone calls cause body parts to fall off would indeed be a plus, but also evidence would be good. Unfortunately due to pirate activity getting said actual evidence would be problematic.

and our ship that they attempted to pirate was 300 miles out, IE not stealing their fish or dumping nuclear waste on their shores.

I x-posted you. Answered above I think.

[Wezil]

Not to mention the fact that this vessel was seized FAR outside even the exclusive economic zone of Somalia (if they had the power to enforce this zone, which they do not).

The failure of Somalia to effectively police fishing off its coast is ITS OWN FAILURE. It is not the responsibility of the world to protect the Somalian fisheries. It is also the responsibility of Somalia to police against piracy. They are failing at that as well (and some parts of the political power structure are actually complicit in it). So **** them. We will police against piracy for them. And if I had my way, we would police against piracy by destroying every single boat in every single village which is a source of pirates until the message was sent.

Agreed.

My original objection was in part b/c some were so quick to dismiss the possibility we (in "the West") were doing something we shouldn't in the area. I tend to disagree with Che as much as anybody here but I won't dismiss the point simply because he made it.

[KrazyHorse]

were doing something we shouldn't in the area

What would that be?

The Somalis have certain rights in a certain zone to legislate what can and can't be done, and reasonably enforce those laws.

They lack the will and/or ability to do so. That is not our problem.

What the hell would you have Western governments do? Extralegally protect Somalian fisheries?

If the Somalis want to protect their fisheries they should form a functioning government instead of spending all their time blowing each other up.

[Wezil]

I'm talking about moral wrongs not legal. If it is legally wrong to do these things anywhere else (where there is a functioning government to enforce territorial claims/responsibilities) then it is wrong to do it there. Yes, ideally it would be up to somalia to look after their own.

That said, there was something approaching a "national" government in somalia recently. That is until the US decided it didn't like the look of the government and had them "run out of town".

[KrazyHorse]

If it is legally wrong to do these things anywhere else (where there is a functioning government to enforce territorial claims/responsibilities) then it is wrong to do it there.

This makes absolutely no sense in this context. The level of fishing allowed in a region is decided on by the appropriate national government. In this case there is no national government to speak of. Does this mean that the appropriate level of fishing is 0? Should all fishing vessels stay away just because Somalia can't get its **** together?

This is not like murder, where the individual's actions taken by themselves are a moral wrong. This is a case where any individual does no moral wrong, yet the net result is not ideal. It's a tragedy of the commons. Unless Western governments were to suddenly step up and assert their right (which I'm sure would also be decried as colonialism by che and his ilk) to dictate to every other nation how much they could fish in Somalian waters there is absolutely nothing to be done here. Fishing is not a moral wrong. Overfishing may be, but NO INDIVIDUAL OVERFISHES BY HIMSELF.

That said, there was something approaching a "national" government in somalia recently. That is until the US decided it didn't like the look of the government and had them "run out of town".

No, there was something approaching a gov't in Mogadishu. And they were run out of town by the Ethiopians because they were busy being ******* neighbours just like Somalia's been to EVERYBODY since the 90s.

[DinoDoc]

Captain is free, pirates dead: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa...tes/index.html

[KrazyHorse]

Yay!!!

[Wezil]

This makes absolutely no sense in this context. The level of fishing allowed in a region is decided on by the appropriate national government. In this case there is no national government to speak of. Does this mean that the appropriate level of fishing is 0? Should all fishing vessels stay away just because Somalia can't get its **** together?

What is the KH standard for dumping of toxins? Is 1 barrel okay? 2?

No, there was something approaching a gov't in Mogadishu. And they were run out of town by the Ethiopians because they were busy being ******* neighbours just like Somalia's been to EVERYBODY since the 90s.

With US support and involvement.

[KrazyHorse]

What is the KH standard for dumping of toxins? Is 1 barrel okay? 2?

The toxin dumping part makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

Why the **** would I ship stuff to Somalia's coast to dump it when the middle of the Indian Ocean is sitting right there?

And whatever low-level ditching of normal ship waste goes on in Somalian waters is, I'm sure, no different than that which goes on basically anywhere in the world outside the coastal waters of highly-developed nations.

[KrazyHorse]

What a load of nonsense, in other words. All you've got is some ridiculous assertions by a bunch of pirates trying to justify their own actions.

Boo.

[chequita guevara]

4)**** you.

Hey, Somolia is the libertarian paradise. It's got no government and a completely unregulated market. You should love the place.

[BeBMan]

Captain is free, pirates dead: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa...tes/index.html

Another miracle performed by the ONE.

*runs away*

[SlowwHand]

Yes, indeed.

Daring rescue by Navy Seals

Capt. Richard Phillips was unharmed, but three of the pirates holding him hostage were slain.

While the nay-sayers were here running their mouths, the Navy was killing pirates and rescuing the captain.
Talk, talk, talk.

[KrazyHorse]

Mighty USN has defeated 4 pirates armed with light weapons. Story at 11.

There is absolutely no reason he shouldn't have been rescued before.